Typhoon

Typhoon still feels op

1: They have massive HP

2: They can be annoying to micro. You must make sure that you get both their EMGs to fire.

3: They have no cheap counters. They take two enforcers or a battleship to counter.

A few ideas

1: Kamikaze boat.
2: Less hp
3: less speed
4: Some kind of new ship that can counter them. Like a slow beam or emp or lighting gun or water cannon.

I just feel like the ship lab needs a Typhoon counter slow beam boat maybe.

I cant understand you say it is OP and now you want improve them? They are annoying to micro? So it is OP or not? I think they are OK.

Sub does not counter Typhoon.

1: Sub turns slowly
2: Sub moves slowly
3: Typhoon can just run away and be repaired.

If you have massed subs they can work but we are talking 4 or 5 subs. That is 2400 or 3000 metal. So again not a cheap counter. If you only have 1 subs its easy to get a hunter and kill it.

By building subs vs typhoon, you just made your situation worse. Your opponent can just spam hunters and now he has an even stronger death ball. If you had build enforces or battleship you would have something to kill his hunters + typhoon.

Hunters + typhoon owns subs. Typhoon gives the dead ball HP and the hunters kill the subs.



You cannot spread typhoons out because they are short range. Therefore, you end up doing darting in and out attacks.

Well the main problem with sub vs typhoon is typhoon being able to so easily running away or run past sub. I do not want to see sea become only sub spam rather than typhoon spam. A slow beam ship would fix the problem of typhoon running away.

Fixing the typhoons 'annoyingness' to use is independent of whether it is OP or not. They're separate issues.

We can buff the sub, but vs typhoon only damage and speed would help. Damage means it starts 3-shotting itself, which means that sub vs sub battles become much less dynamic (they're already not as good as they could be). If you increase the subs HP too, it becomes stronger vs Hunter as well as vs Vette.

You can nerf the vette, but this hurts it vs Hovers. Particularly its speed and HP would help vs subs. Losing either speed or HP would make mace-kiting much worse, which means it might need to get more range as well (changing its weapon in any way doesn't effect it at all vs subs, so its a good swap to make to increase the counter dynamics while keeping its power unchanged). More range means it's better and probably destroys the whole mace kiting dynamic- Scalpel has more range than mace (440 to 350, vette is 270) and similiar speed (2.1 to 2.2) but is it good enough to replace Mace for kiting? More range for vette also lets it fire further inland (not a huge issue).

You can see how complex this gets and this is exactly what Google and I have been discussing regarding this matter, only we've also been factoring in the balance of the new amph units and how these change will effect them (esp, how Amph power must be pegged to Sub power, otherwise, as a submerged unit, it is just a more effective land-walking sub).

Slowbeam ship would not fix vette running vs subs. If it is a ship the vettes will eat it alive, how is it going to keep ships in place long enough for subs to kill it? So you're using slowbeams + vettes vs vettes? Bad dynamic. The Sub would need slow or EMP on it's Torpedo (Actually I'm liking this idea the more I think about it).

I wouldn't be against a slowbeam unit for -hovers-, since they need more units, and we only have 2 units that use slow. This would allow you to actually use scalpels effectively (I think the major reason we see so few Scalpels when compared to Janus is the lack of synergies and the fact ships are so fast).

I've never liked the big ship lab having full-out raider anyways. I mean, I get why Uberhack added it - they wanted to get rid of that massive jump where basically the first player to field a Destroyer won the sea... but the Corvette gameplay seems to turn sea into a mad aggressive flash-rush game. Giving the Typhoon more of an antiswarmer/skirmisher role (even though there are no swarms for it to fight) would help.

Then again, I shouldn't really contribute to this discussion since my attitude for sea is "throw it all out and start from near-scratch with new labs".

> Sub does not counter Typhoon.
>
> 1: Sub turns slowly
> 2: Sub moves slowly
> 3: Typhoon can just run away and be repaired.

Same applies to any riot vs raider.

Thyphoon is not riot, it's just anti-Scrubber.
But it is anti-so-many, because sea has so much surfaces and much roles would make it even worse.

But I agree with the oppinnion to nerf the dps. I suggest a passive weapon as second weapon (stun, slow, gravity, very light AA)...

Wut? Typhoon is assault? Your face is assault. You really suck at unit classes.