Making sea more fun.

I agree, sea still need more units diversity.

Hunter spam can counter all Amphibious Base unit, maybe except Grizzly.

Shredder (only need 1 or 2) stop ALL air in sea map for ALL game duration.

That only leave old Hovers vs Ships plans was viables.

I still waiting for Blastwing Mines thing.

Maybe we could get a new Strider in sea that is close range combat, all we have now is artillery.

A lot of this is because of static defense being weak (Thus strong cons, weak scouts, bumrushing, losing your factory, etc).

As for turret arcs on sub etc, have you ever played thos space or ship combat games (often turn based) where your facing and turret arcs really matter? They're completely amazing, a totally different kind of strategy game. Sea, at it's best, is like this. Sadly we've already dumbed a lot of this stuff down and it is frustrating (Licho's global accel/turn buffs).

I will admit though that the Corvette just -doesnt- work. Ideally you should always face your broadside to the enemy, but it turns so fast (and often faces so erratically) and faces incorrectly etc...

The number one thing I think we need is torpedoes hitting hovers. But there isn't enough support in the dev team or playerbase for this. Even if we did this, we may need to fiddle with the numbers a bit. Will hunter start countering hovers? Does this mean hunter and sub need to be weaker? Now that torpedoes hit hovers, can ships (esp vette and enforcer) afford to be a bit weaker since A. They don't have to be strong enough to compensate for the fact that they're the only units hit by both land and sub weapons. B. They don't have to be strong enough to compensate for the fact that the other (torpedo-armed) half of your army is 0% effective vs hovers.

Thinking on it, a lot of this sounds like good things...

Fiddling with unit facing is not the kind of micro I want to have to deal with on any unit that costs under 1000.

Honestly, everything about the naval game squicks me. The over-hard RPS between underwater/surface/hover/air. The weak defenses. The unarmed comms. The new underwater shield/cloak gens. The fact that defending against underwater requires both a sonar station and a torpedo launcher... and you have zero other options for that. To build UW defense you build two and exactly two units - no more, no less, no different. Heck, all the variety of land weapons (and a little variety on AA weapons) but zero variety in UW weapons.

Talk to Smoth about how great weapons without a rear firing arc are. Basically it means that any battle is win-or-annihilation because retreating is suicide.

Just a thought here: aren't surfboards the solution to the lack of diversity in naval combat since surfboards bring the diversity of land units to the sea?

What? Is the helptext of the torp launcher incorrect?

Pxtl I never said no rear weapon just a rear weapon that cannot be used at the same time as the front weapon like krow.

You could even give rear a slow beam.

Sorry, but that is how BA sea was played. By BA sea i mean SoW 1v1 ofc, because that's all it was. It was epic, fantastic, all this stuff mattered, and for the most part the engine handled it really well. Everything was turninplace but you can give a series of move orders at 45-90 degrees to accelerate, or a order directly behind to turn in place (You could do a 180 without accelerating by keeping the move point behind the unit). This might seem unintuitive at first but it actually gives you total control over the unit, unlike currently where making a unit turn around often means it straying into turret range. Dodging projectiles where you have to really worry about your momentum and heading rather than just 'jinking' like most land raiders, moving in and out of arcs: The mechanics and interface could be improved but it was not beyond the scope of the engine.

Now units all turn and accelerate too fast to really micro like this and the demands of big 4v4 sea battles (Don't get me wrong I'm glad people actually play sea) mean we've stripped almost all of this out.

That said, Vette needs to change. IMO it was fine when the front turret couldn't shoot backwards (cutting your DPS by 50% if you retreated). We could go with that, but the model doesn't really indicate it. Alternatively we could just let it shoot through itself, there is no solid reason not to.

Nobody has disagreed about torpedoes hitting hovers either here yet so i'll just go do that now too...

Forgive me for trying to discuss an implementation first.

What about a more tank like assault like

http://www.sikorskyarchives.com/boat2.html

Would have a large main gun and 2 small emgs one on each side of main cannon.