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Is Disruptor Ammo supposed to be this way?

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7 years ago
I was doing some experimentation with the Disruptor Ammo module, and I noticed some irregularities in how the various weapons it applies to (Light Particle Beam, Shotgun, Heavy Machine Gun) are affected by it. I was wondering if there a particular reason for this, or if it's maybe just legacy balancing from a previous commander system.

Disruptor Ammo affects the Shotgun and Heavy Machine Gun weapons in a predictable manner: it cuts the damage output of the weapon in half, then adds half of that back as slow damage. I'm guessing this is the intended implementation of the Disruptor Ammo module, but it strikes me as being very inefficient -- 450 metal is a lot for an upgrade that actually reduces your commander's output. Disruptor Bomb only cost 200 metal, why not get that instead?

On the other hand, Light Particle Beam changes drastically with the Disruptor Ammo module. It goes from being a weapon that shoots a 55-damage shot, three times a second; to a weapon that shoots 165-damage-plus-230-slow shots, every other second. Not only does Disruptor Ammo affect the Light Particle Beam differently than it does the Shotgun and HMG, it increases the commander's overall DPS, as opposed to decreasing it.

Is there a reason Disruptor Ammo works this way?
+2 / -0
55 damage 3 times a second is equal to 165 damage once a second, so (considering the disruptor beam fires once every two seconds) that math checks out. Possibly the increased slow damage proportion (as compared to HMG and Shotgun) is to compensate for how slow damage interacts with a less rapid refire rate? (Although the more I think about that the less sense it makes, seems like it would be better rather than worse.) Possibly it's because the Light Particle Beam starts out as a less damaging weapon than HMG and Shotgun.

The behaviour of the Disruptor Beam is probably a legacy from when it was an upgrade to the zero-conventional-damage slowbeam, though.

I certainly prefer Disruptor Bomb to any of the Disruptor Ammo options, personally. Or, indeed, to a lot of commander modules. The Disruptor Bomb is pretty good.
+0 / -0

7 years ago
Slow damage does not decay for 0.5s so a HMG (0.16s reload) will not start decaying but the particle beam will.
+0 / -0
7 years ago
quote:
Possibly the increased slow damage proportion (as compared to HMG and Shotgun) is to compensate for how slow damage interacts with a less rapid refire rate?

quote:
Slow damage does not decay for 0.5s so a HMG (0.16s reload) will not start decaying but the particle beam will.

I would point out that the Shotgun also has a 2-second reload, yet still shares the lesser 25% slow damage ratio with the HMG. For the LPB to have 100% slow damage is still largely arbitrary.

quote:
Possibly it's because the Light Particle Beam starts out as a less damaging weapon than HMG and Shotgun.

"Less Damaging" in terms of DPS, yes. Interestingly, the LPB does the most damage per "pellet": 55/projectile versus the HMG's 30 or the Shotgun's 32.

That interesting tidbit aside; yes, the DPS is lower, but that's because the LPB has other advantages over the HMG and Shotgun, which it would still have after Disruptor Ammo -- its longer range and instant-hit projectiles hit sooner and are more army-friendly. Maybe this is true, but I think balancing a module asymmetricly based on only one of several stats is...well, unbalanced.

Largely, I'm thinking it's most likely:

quote:
The behaviour of the Disruptor Beam is probably a legacy from when it was an upgrade to the zero-conventional-damage slowbeam, though.

...and Disruptor Ammo is so underused, because it's overpriced and underwhelming, that making the module consistent (if not worthwhile) isn't a high priority.
+0 / -0

7 years ago
The Heavy Machine Gun also has a significant area-of-effect on each bullet I believe; the Shotgun's area of effect on each bullet is marginal. I've definitely seen Disruptor Ammo used with the HMG, maybe even about as often as with the Particle Beam. I don't remember ever seeing it used with the Shotgun.
+0 / -0

7 years ago
The beam having x2 more slow than real damage is consistent with regular units with disruptors such as Moderator (this would also be why it modifies reload time I guess, these tend to fire slowly). I think this is worth keeping.

On the other hand there are no units with slowbullets (of either shotgun or HMG type) but I think it fits them to have the real component dominate.

These two considerations don't really blend together when trying to make a consistent numerical ratio. Possibly they could both have x1 (which also makes for an elegant module description: "convert half real damage to slow") but this already stretches it.

Feel free to propose a better set of values though.
+0 / -0
7 years ago
quote:
I've definitely seen Disruptor Ammo used with the HMG, maybe even about as often as with the Particle Beam. I don't remember ever seeing it used with the Shotgun.

quote:
These two considerations don't really blend together when trying to make a consistent numerical ratio. Possibly they could both have x1 (which also makes for an elegant module description: "convert half real damage to slow") but this already stretches it.

Well, both of you have been more involved than I've been, so I imagine you would know better than I would. I'll defer to you.

quote:
The beam having x2 more slow than real damage is consistent with regular units with disruptors such as Moderator (this would also be why it modifies reload time I guess, these tend to fire slowly). I think this is worth keeping.

quote:
Feel free to propose a better set of values though.

A good number of disruptor-equipped units are skirmishers: the Moderator, the Buoy, and the Rapier -- even the Goliath, to a degree. The general idea behind skirmishers also fits in with what Disruptor Ammo currently does: slower rate of fire and lower damage output.

Maybe it wouldn't be a terrible idea to take it a step further? If Disruptor Ammo also increased the range but lowered the fire-rate of all three weapons, then Disruptor Ammo might be another solid skirmisher-style commander option?
+0 / -0
Skirmishing Commanders are hard to do well since they inherently break the role. Remember that skirms are comparatively fragile and susceptible to being swarmed. Meanwhile Commanders are tanky by default and can equip a second weapon to handle swarms (if even needed: a long range HMG would do by itself) so a skirm commander doesn't really have any decent counterplay. Of course you can just keep adding -damage% until it's "right" but from previous attempts it looks like you eventually reach a point where the weapon is still unfun to play against but already not worthwhile to use. This is not to say it can't be done in a decent way but it would take a lot of careful tweaking for little gain. This is probably the reason Disruptor Ammo is so bad: when you don't have the time and feedback to ensure something is well balanced then it's better to oversteer in the bad direction (because if something is bad then the remaining N-1 things are still viable, but if you make it too good there's just one).
+0 / -0
Hum? "Skirmishing Commander breaks the role" is not the conclusion I would've drawn from my own experience. I'd always seen Commanders as relatively fragile for how much metal you can dump into them; and, without a good riot weapon, easy to swarm.

Still, it's possible that it's more of an issue than I realize, and I'm just terrible about over-extending.

Maybe Disruptor Ammo will be balanced one day; maybe it won't. I really only asked why Disruptor Ammo is the way it is, and that question is being answered well.
+0 / -0