ZK is pretty mature now. How about fixing the stupid penetrate weapons? Gauss/dgun/flamer. a special damage group for every single unit is the least intuituve thing in the world, and makes them impossible to balance.

pleaseplease implement 1 hit per target and balance accordingly.

As much as I hate the special-damage-y-nature of penetrate weapons, I at this point changing them would require completely reworking every unit that bears one - right now gauss and dguns are used on anti-heavy units because of multi-hit behavior. Converting them into single-hit-per-target would make them into riot weapons, which is the exact opposite. For some units this isn't a big deal like the Goli, but for the Pyro and the Det and the Ultimatum this would have drastic effects on the unit.

@HighlyMonkeydTrain

Except that these "anti-heavy" weapons are also anti-lab, anti-hover, anti-spider.... basically, they do more damage to the units that are flat and wide, and fail vs. small-but-powerful targets like defenses. The Pyro is a balancing nightmare.

LOL how obvious is that sumo is not heavy enough ;)

Ivory:
If we implement 1-hit, we have to do more damage to higher cost targets.

All this wouldn't be an issue if we would have collision boxes according to the metal cost or weight.

ZK-devs say zk uses real physics, but this is exactly the point where it becomes unreliable.

Something can be explained with holes in units (factories), but look at the size of ultimatum and Grizzly, and tell me, why Ultimatum is so small when Grizzly need this small size much more (It looks out of low water levels).

Penetration is awesome. D:

It's kind of an interesting alternative to standard AoE.

Penetrate this mofo!

itt, mostly people with no idea what they are talking about.

quote: in simples, penetrating damage while passing through the unit. big unit more passing through more damage also means bye bye felon ball. removing this feature BAD APPLES FOR DEM BALANCING

what you are talking about, I truly do not know.

quote: Google has already mostly nerfed the damage to larger hitvolumes by making the projectiles all travel really fast. We've discussed this before and I actually think it'd be fine. Removing this would not be so bad, and would just require a little DPS tweaking. Pyros losing their bonus damage to factories is hardly going to break anything.

yeah, pretty much atm gauss does shit all except when firing from certain angles into certain terrain against a certain hixbot orientation, where it can maybe do 4x damage in one shot. why? who knows.
pyro does basically random damage also.

quote: Sumo usually survives 1 dgun hit while Scorpion dies to 1 hit. :-/

and krow takes next to no damage because its waffer thin.

its stupid, and fixing it wont break anything. it simply removes a completely random, engine dependent stupid damage group that is impossible to predict and glitchy at best.

The multi-unit-hitting is too cool to remove, even if the increased damage to larger hitboxes is sometimes weird. (But not random)

quote: How does increasing the projectile speed reduce the "damage to larger hitvolumes" effect? Increasing projectile speed would be a flat nerf to damage regarldless of the size of the target, wouldn't it? I mean, if a projectile's speed is doubled, it will lose half its damage to the target no matter how big the target is - half damage to a small target, half damage to a large target.

You're forgetting the coarse quantisation of time. Every frame the projectile moves and if it is inside a unit it deals damage to it. It also deals damage when it hits the unit. With current velocities, Gauss hits most units once and Flame hits many small units once.

If anything piercing effects should be improved, not worsened.

Large colvols taking additional damage from piercing weapons is not only intuitive, but also cool both tactic- and physic wise.

Same applies to aoe of course: physics should be improved.

Intuitive "what you see is what you get" weapons based on simple, physical concepts are an awesome strength of ZK. I don't know of any other RTS game with anything similar. Such a nice feature has to be exploited to its full potential!