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Advanced settings buttons

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7 days ago
Hello All,

We were chatting in the lobby and the topic of "advanced" buttons being disabled by default.

Buttons such as dive or no dive for the Raven, something that directly affects survivability.

While I get the intention is to help guide newbies, it also hurts veteran players to hide buttons like that because for the longest time I assume that was removed. And if the argument is well vets should know better, you're assuming players follow the development.

Suggestion: make a button or a settings toggle to turn on all advanced buttons for all units, if it's not already a thing, but the best option would be to actually incorporate it in the GUI panel for all these buttons so players eventually click on it and will discover it.

If it's buried in settings, it might as well not exist.
+6 / -0
I knew some buttons were missing, how do you turn them back on? Also i noticed that some of the terraform hotkeys that let you terraform with any object are now disabled, or were changed.


Better question, when did all of this stuff even change? I remember these features back in 2018.


edit:
It would appear on further inspection of the hotkey config, which you can only access when in game, they still exist. However whether or not they work seems to be touch and go. Maybe this is actually a bug?
+2 / -0
6 days ago
I think it was last year sometime, I remember reading about it in an update note. I agree with Super's suggestion.

As for re-enabling all of them, go to the escape menu ingame and then Settings > Interface > Commands and scroll to the bottom. Also make sure the "simple settings" box in the bottom left is unchecked.
+1 / -0
6 days ago
*Simple settings box in the bottom right, that is
+0 / -0

6 days ago
I took some time to go through all the advanced settings, its like revisiting an old memory because i completely forgot about these after reinstalling the game a couple times over the years.

So for anyone peaking in here and wondering about these things: (As hexxit mentioned)

This is for the settings menu thats in-game.

1. Enable advanced settings / Disable simple settings; some menu's have either option, though simple options will always be on the bottom.

2. To enable stuff like dive bomber state, you need to go into Settings > Interface > Commands. The option will be buried in there but just scroll for it. There are also other commands in there, such as roam move state, which appears to have been disabled by default too.
+1 / -0
6 days ago
It was done in "Zero-K v1.8.9.1 - Control Cleanup and Idle Improvement" probably so that new players wouldn't get overwhelmed by all the little buttons (I'm, no doubt, quoting someone when saying that):

http://zero-k.info/Forum/Thread/32102

Look for my post there. Tries to explain how to put things back where they were.
+2 / -0


6 days ago
I had to explain to a friend how to turn on advanced settings so he could use selection ranks.
+0 / -0



4 days ago
The only one I am not sure about is selection ranks. No other game exposed selection ranks in such a way so I thought it was an advanced feature. I think it is the one button I have personally unhidden though, since I use it occasionally. On the other hand, there is no way new players need the mental overhead of seeing this button on the UI. The commander would reach eight state toggles with it enabled.

I think the most important states for new players to see are (ranked in order):
  • Hold Position - Other games have a semi-state for this, so not showing it can confuse/annoy some people.
  • Repeat - The tutorial talks about it and it is key to making factory queues. It is also common to the TA-like genre.
  • Cloak Toggle - People need a way to control cloak and the state is fairly rare, so it has a low risk.
  • On/Off - Similar to cloak toggle. It is rare and clearly linked to an ability when displayed.
  • Cloaker Toggle - As On/Off.
  • Priority - Probably the state most people use the most, so it is good to put it there for people to discover.
  • Misc Priority - If you're going to include priority then I guess you had better include this. I think there is an argument for just sticking to states more important than this.
  • Factory Assist - Just shows on factories and is nice to have.
  • Hold Fire - Goes with hold position.
  • Retreat - Personally I barely use retreat, but I hear many people like it, and it is a fairly fleshed out system. The top left bar also needs the retreat zone button for this feature to be at all usable, so we're trapped between this being somewhat discoverable and not discoverable at all.
  • Anti-Bait state.
  • Float Toggle/Newton Gravity/Other Rare States that are somewhat useful but rarely touched.
  • States that should basically never be touched.

Perhaps the retreat toggle could stay off the default UI and show itself when a zone is placed. This would be the disabled behaviour. When enabled it would show permanently.
+1 / -0

4 days ago
I often use retreat thresholds on Swifts without setting a retreat zone, for what that's worth.
+1 / -0
4 days ago
Idk, I think there is a certain kind of transparency with showing things by default. I recently got homeworld remastered, and was surprised to find it had some settings for selection ranks but they were hidden in settings and had to be enabled. Maybe I am in the minority, but I like seeing what is available to be used without digging through settings.
+3 / -0
4 days ago
I also prefer more settings than less settings shown. At least for swifts the retreat button is a must in my opinion. Showing some of the buttons for units where it makes sense would be an alternative, but might introduce more confusion/discussions (swifts and some tanks make sense to retreat, but lot of other things are not that "clear").
+0 / -0
Like, all I'm asking is this:

Pick 2 or 3 levels of displays/buttons.

Say default and verbose (or even debug). Make it a button to give me more buttons instead of "go through settings". I won't use what I don't know is an option, and it's not worth the time to dig through settings.
+2 / -0
3 days ago
quote:
I won't use what I don't know is an option, and it's not worth the time to dig through settings.


These days when I try out a new RTS game I dig into the settings rather promptly. A lot of time I am just rebinding hotkeys to be more to my liking, but also I like to take a general look around.
+0 / -0

3 days ago
quote:
Maybe I am in the minority, but I like seeing what is available to be used without digging through settings.


I totally agree with the sentiment above, which you said earlier.

Regarding digging through settings, I'm sure you know you're in the minority for that. For cosmetic and binding stuff, sure, keep those in menu. For unit behavior that will actually affect the gameplay (ie, unit survivability?) Keep that accessible.

Like, you don't put traction control or the defroster for your car under the hood or in the glove box why the hell would you do that here?
+0 / -0



2 days ago
There are so many unit behaviour and interface settings that putting a button to access them shallower on the UI would probably be too overwhelming. The adv command visibility toggles are already shown in simple settings in the menu.
+1 / -0