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Calling the Resign Team

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10 months ago
I got a game where the player who screwed up in the game, after he capitulated. Now he is a spectator and he is engaged in the fact that he introduces team !poll resign and offers my team to capitulate.

Such a player does not have the right to call a resign command, and here's why:

1. He is now a spectator, not a team player, should not have access to team commands, not his privilege. It would be dumber if a team 1 player called a resign poll for the 2nd team, I don’t see a difference with a spectator.
2. A player who has already capitulated does not play, he is bored and he is engaged in abusing the team in order to finish the game faster and start the next one, but I, as a player who plays for the sake of victory, do not care about what this player wants, I play to the last and to win .
3. This is a spec-cheat that is not allowed in the game. Since the player is now a spectator, he sees the whole map, which means he has more information. Now he's triggering a resign poll, which destroys my team's motivation - it's complete bullshit. Because of this, I have to digress into a damn chat to convince my team that we have not lost yet, that we have good positions and economy and that we need to fight - I have to restore the motivation of my team. I'm wasting my time on this and getting distracted by some bastard spamming !poll resign from spectator mode and have to counter it, what the hell? I have another example, imagine that in a 1 on 1 game, the spectator will tell the player that he is losing with a high chance and offer him to surrender, don't you find this as dismoral behavior?



Also in BAR, a spectator cannot vote to resign.
+20 / -0
Spectators all-chat (to start resign votes or otherwise) at their own peril. Players should feel free to kick spectators who are abusing the privilege of all-chat.

There are practical reasons why spectators are allowed to vote in resign polls, and any technical solution is going to have to engage with those practicalities. For example, it does not take many players going AFK for a resign poll to be pretty difficult to pass.

Much as I would like to encourage people to continue to play games until their team as a whole chooses to resign (as is my own invariant policy), I think trying to enforce or coerce that is probably not a winning proposition. I do not know how our community culture compares to that of BAR in terms of how often people do this.
+3 / -0

10 months ago
quote:
For example, it does not take many players going AFK for a resign poll to be pretty difficult to pass.

Then what about this: the poll can just count AFK players as not there (because they aren't), the result of that being the total number of players needed for a majority would go down.

Unless there are other reasons why spectators should be able to vote in resign polls, I think the bad things out-weigh the good things by quite a lot.
+4 / -0
quote:
the poll can just count AFK players as not there

I don't think our AFK detection is good enough to make this a foolproof solution. Possibly it does not have to be foolproof.

I am personally open to changes being made along these lines, but I am probably not the person that would have to be convinced to make it happen.
+0 / -0


10 months ago
quote:
Such a player does not have the right to call a resign command, and here's why:

1. He is now a spectator, not a team player, should not have access to team commands, not his privilege. It would be dumber if a team 1 player called a resign poll for the 2nd team, I don’t see a difference with a spectator.
2. A player who has already capitulated does not play, he is bored and he is engaged in abusing the team in order to finish the game faster and start the next one, but I, as a player who plays for the sake of victory, do not care about what this player wants, I play to the last and to win .
3. This is a spec-cheat that is not allowed in the game. Since the player is now a spectator, he sees the whole map, which means he has more information. Now he's triggering a resign poll, which destroys my team's motivation - it's complete bullshit. Because of this, I have to digress into a damn chat to convince my team that we have not lost yet, that we have good positions and economy and that we need to fight - I have to restore the motivation of my team. I'm wasting my time on this and getting distracted by some bastard spamming !poll resign from spectator mode and have to counter it, what the hell? I have another example, imagine that in a 1 on 1 game, the spectator will tell the player that he is losing with a high chance and offer him to surrender, don't you find this as dismoral behavior?

I agree on all points. There are some nuances though. I thought I wrote a ticket about it or something, but I can't find it.

On the technical side of things I think we have to move resign from being a battle room concept to being a game concept.
  • Rooms have trouble knowing who is a spectator or not. The game knows.
  • Rooms have trouble knowing who is AFK (or the detection is more lenient). The game knows.
  • Room polls must be a global blocking poll. A game-poll could be local to teams and not interfere with other polls.

For practical purposes we may want to let very recently resigned players vote on resign polls. Then someone can resign and vote to resign within something like a minute. This seems better than having players sit around uselessly just so they can vote on a poll. There is also the issue of a 10v10 resigning down to a 2v2. In an ideal world the other 16 players would be able to start a new game and let the 2v2 continue in peace. But with the current system some of the 16 players end up yelling to make the game end. So for practicality we may need to add a rule like "teams with only 20% of their player left resign", to deal with the case that current spectator resign solves.

Anyway, until any of this happens, the answer is that spectators have barely any right to do anything, so you can kick them. But that can be quite hard and disruptive when they are spamming votes.
+6 / -0
10 months ago
Its very common for a new player who does not notice the poll or does not notice how far behind the team is and will continue the fight to the last solar collector. I can see how it can let you down but in practice I've seen this used hundreds of times to reduce the wait time when its down to the last newb.
+0 / -0

10 months ago
quote:
Then what about this: the poll can just count AFK players as not there (because they aren't)


quote:
I think we have to move resign from being a battle room concept to being a game concept.


<picard>Make it so.</picard>
+0 / -0

10 months ago
quote:
Anyway, until any of this happens, the answer is that spectators have barely any right to do anything, so you can kick them. But that can be quite hard and disruptive when they are spamming votes.


Despite the impression you might have, kick-votes are actually pretty hard to get through. Plus if someone spams resign-votes, that automatically makes it a lot more difficult to set it up even.
+2 / -0
10 months ago
They can also just re-join the room in 5min and keep spamming resign votes...
+3 / -0
quote:
quote:
Anyway, until any of this happens, the answer is that spectators have barely any right to do anything, so you can kick them. But that can be quite hard and disruptive when they are spamming votes.

Despite the impression you might have, kick-votes are actually pretty hard to get through. Plus if someone spams resign-votes, that automatically makes it a lot more difficult to set it up even.

quote:
But that can be quite hard and disruptive when they are spamming votes.

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quote:
They can also just...

The answer to problems of this form is to report them.
+1 / -0
The best solution is to make the required player number depend on the number of playing players as USrankLawesome9 said and to block starting resign votes and voting on resign votes for resigned players. The required number should also be updated when a player resigns while a resign vote is ongoing in which the resigning player has not participated. The principle of updating vote requirements should also be applied to other votes such as start votes. Sometimes, players are leaving such that an ongoing start vote cannot be successfull.
I'm not sure what is necessary to implement this. For resign votes, it seems to be making it a game logic as AUrankAdminGoogleFrog said, or at least tell the room if a player resigns or leaves.

If updating the requiremnt was not possible, the 2nd best solution would be to count resigned players as having voted !y on resign votes and to block starting resign votes and voting on resign votes for them.

The 3rd best solution is to only block starting resign votes for resigned players without changing anything else. In this case, it would be bad to remove the possibility for resigned players to vote on resign votes because then, some resign votes can never be successfull. The problem of never ending resign votes if noobs don't know that they can still vote after having resigned still exists in the current and 3rd best solution but is solved by the 1st and 2nd best solution.
+3 / -0
> I play to the last and to win

unless you lose your factory early on 👀

I really like the idea of removing them from the voting pool a lot.
+1 / -0