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How to expand?

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10 months ago
One of my biggest faults in Zero-K is that I just can't expand my territory.
This applies to basically any strategy game I've ever played.
I think it's not only about skill, but also a mindset. Can it be learned?

The game is quite unforgiving to the would-be expander:
- The AI is extremely eager to kill expansion, Coop games I've seen is almost tower-defense mode.
- Chickens appear randomly everywhere, so they punish expansion a lot.
- Expanding in lobpot means going up against the strongest players on the other team.
- Front-line coms are a juicy target in lobpot, and you'll be blamed for losing it.
- Raiders are pretty-much designed to kill expansion.
- Signal-warfare (radar/shadow) means you just don't know where the enemy might strike.
- When a front is lost in lobpot, the whole team has to do a morale check.

The campaign starts off by teaching you to expand, but later the AI will punish you for it.

Most likely a lot of players that stick to lobpot and Coop are like me, they over-expand and lose.
This causes the following thought trend: Expand and lose (punishment), or porc and win (reward).
And by extension: Play 1v1 or small teams = Lose.

How to turn this around? "tech to krogothpala" -> "expand to win"

What if the AI also had to "pan the camera around" to control units?
Sure it would be a LOT weaker, but maybe better at teaching expansion?
+5 / -0

10 months ago
Expand can be learned.

I've always been a porcy player and learned that you can expand in steps. Light porc + commander is actually quite strong in the early game. You can quite comfortably push commander forward about a third of the map, stop and build 2 lotus + radar. That's your fallback position. Then you push on another bit till you are just short of mid and build another 2 lotus or 3 lotus depending on what the threat profile looks like. Your aim is to get to mid or just past it until there's too much enemy junk coming at you. I usually erect a wall and hunker down behind it as my army catches up from the factory.

Usually I don't have to hold out for too long before the team also comes up and joins the fight. If I get outgunned I try fall back in steps to each fallback position. The fallback positions have the added advantage that they catch any detritus from the front like lone, damaged vehicles or little groups of glaives.

Alternatively if you don't like porcing up what you can do is to plan to have just one forward line.

Rush a significant group of raiders as your very first action. Send them off and plan out an eco and expand as they are going outward. I usually use my commander for that aiming to reach the midline. You should get this rapid expand plan done before the raiders reach the enemy. Then using the raiders you look for the gaps in the enemy line and try to break through to the rear. The aim now is to pick off mexes, solars and wind, making them have to pull back their own expand to chase down your raiders. YOU DONT FIGHT their offensive elements, but run away. The sole aim here is to kill their expand by making them waste units and time chasing your raiders. The longer these rushed raiders live the better. I find 3 kodachi works quite nicley.
+2 / -0
10 months ago
Just some observations on the list:
quote:
- Chickens appear randomly everywhere, so they punish expansion a lot.
definitely chicken games don't seem a game mode where you would ever learn expansion, if anything it would make bad habits regarding expansion.
quote:
- Expanding in lobpot means going up against the strongest players on the other team.
There is some nuance to it. If you expand to the point of being a severe threat, the strongest player might react to you. But it's a team game, so if another team mate of yours did well with expansion it's mostly good (best player can't split in N fronts). But it is true that if you over expand a lot compared to your teammates you generally you will have a harder time.
quote:
- Front-line coms are a juicy target in lobpot, and you'll be blamed for losing it.
I think people really don't like people porcing in the back. Yes, it is nice to take care of your comm, but most of the times did not see much blame for loosing the com (unless you are really really careless)
quote:
- When a front is lost in lobpot, the whole team has to do a morale check.
Nicely put and so important. Still there are different levels of "lost front", it rarely is "I have no units left because I expanded". It is more like "lost some army", "got unexpected counter", etc. If you are 3v1 on a front and you lost, remember it's a team game, that's also a team failure.

My personal experience is:
  • expanding is also about making the opponent believe "this is the front". Purples are "hard to convince" other players will start porcing as soon as they see your units. So if your units are in front enough you "convinced" them.
  • loosing expansion is not an issue unless you also lost the whole army. If 2-3 players come after your expansion retreat the army, loose the expansion and hope your team mates will expand. You can't always win
  • ask for help in team games. Sometimes people think you are fine and they just don't notice.

Can't comment much on 1v1, it is too micro intensive for me to play regularly.
+3 / -0
quote:
- The AI is extremely eager to kill expansion, Coop games I've seen is almost tower-defense mode.

The CCR macro challenge is essentially about this:

- Play against bots on Comet Catcher
- As rovers
- You are only allowed to build these mobile units: mason, dart, scorcher, ripper, ravager, crasher and maybe fencer
- No turrets
- No terraform
- Not even a single level of commander morphing.

The classical hard mode version is played against three bots, so you have to come back through raiding and expansion already starting from behind. But for learning the mindset, going 1v1 against Brutal should work.

---

If you want to improve, you need to not play the coop games. Most people don't want to improve but want to just have fun at whatever skill level they are. If you improve you will leave them behind, and to improve, you have to leave them behind.

quote:
- Expanding in lobpot means going up against the strongest players on the other team.

Expanding in lobpot is mostly just noticing that there are unclaimed mexes on the map at this moment, and claiming them, or doing whatever necessary to claim them; as well as rebuilding after destruction, and quickly building-up controlled but not mexed territory.

It's surprisingly easy to get the expansion award just doing this maintenance task alongside whatever else you are doing.

The macro challenge above kind of aims to drill this into a mindless instinct. With all the micro needed to counter the enemies with only mobile units, your expansion better be extremely streamlined both strategically (build order, expansion paths) and mechanically (how many seconds you spend looking at minimap, issuing the orders, and how long it takes you to notice an opportunity)
+2 / -0
10 months ago
This
quote:
expanding is also about making the opponent believe "this is the front". Purples are "hard to convince" other players will start porcing as soon as they see your units. So if your units are in front enough you "convinced" them.


Also if you want to expand (especially during 1v1 or small teams game) it's good idea to distract your enemy with raiders attacking in other places, so you can expand while hes busy fending off couple of cheap units. Top tier it is to harass enemy constantly from all sides while simultaniously expanding.
+2 / -0
Generally, I'd advise every player on my team to make a beeline for the halfway point. Leave the juicy cluster of three mexes next to start alone, send an early builder there to claim them a little later. As soon as your commander reaches mid, dont build mexes, but rush 2-3 lotus and then build mex. From there, it's all about conserving that momentum and hopefully keeping that middle advantage for the rest of the game. As long as you are consistently attacking and being free to choose where and when to attack, you are winning.
+1 / -0