Doesn't really fit to call out names, as it sometimes changes, and isn't nice, but yeah obvious from these links who I'm mainly talking about https://zero-k.info/Battles/Detail/1922664https://zero-k.info/Battles/Detail/1922667https://zero-k.info/Battles/Detail/1922670Here 1 replay that I played in too of this silly stuff so I don't get jumped about not including it :p https://zero-k.info/Battles/Detail/1919375https://zero-k.info/Battles/Detail/1922653https://zero-k.info/Battles/Detail/1922650https://zero-k.info/Battles/Detail/1922643https://zero-k.info/Battles/Detail/1922680https://zero-k.info/Battles/Detail/1922689https://zero-k.info/Battles/Detail/1922694https://zero-k.info/Battles/Detail/1922699(There's more games like this,probably at least 1 more, was just making this while they were being played so I didn't feel like waiting every time) All these replays are of games that are ON ELO(There is probably an ability for admins+ to check if a game was normal or noelo, kind of unsure if the very last ones are elo, since their elo didn't change after game ended). the replays were full of meme at it's finest, commander only, a 1 unit 1v1???? Other games, like arena mode, I didn't really complain much since it gets reset on server restart, but this? This is a completely normal game, that was just agreed to do something meme together, which probably doesn't get reset on a server restart, sooooo, cooked balance! need to fix this!!11!1 Not even sure what can be done about this, setting all of these games on noelo wont work because obviously there can be new games, but this needs to be changed
+2 / -1
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I'm not entirely sure if custom games count toward elons?
+0 / -0
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Meh. In the majority of these games i did not gain much elo. And a ...huge... 5% rank progress.
+1 / -2
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these last 4 did not count towards elo. https://zero-k.info/Battles/Detail/1922680https://zero-k.info/Battles/Detail/1922689https://zero-k.info/Battles/Detail/1922694https://zero-k.info/Battles/Detail/1922699the others did produce elo changes. some just minor like +/- 3, most single digit, some hefty -43 elons. i dont know what you want from me. (games can be excluded by an admin from elo. this then affects all players.)
+1 / -0
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What is the point of excluding elo from what we played? We played some normal matches too. Im also pretty sure psaniac has said once or twice before: "Getting rid of my purple shackles". So if he willingly indulges in playing like this, i do not see the point that you are making. Here are some replays of me beating psaniac normally: https://zero-k.info/Battles/Detail/1919317https://zero-k.info/Battles/Detail/1919294All while we retained roughly the same % difference. It is seriously not a big deal, no i do think that i mess up balance.
+1 / -2
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quote:
It is seriously not a big deal, no i do think that i mess up balance. |
Well thats hard to say if you don`t know the math behind whr. I have neither intention nor interest of being part of the main discussion. All I want to say is that "it`s not a big deal" communicates that you are aware that there was something problematic.
+1 / -0
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I really don't understand what it is going to take to stop you trying to manipulate your rating   TheFlyingFortress. (Although it sounds like    psaniac is trying to manipulate their rating in this instance also.) I guess there's two aspects to this: (1) What do I have to do to fix the existing damage? Do I have to de-elo every casual 1v1 you've ever played? I don't see any other practical solution. (2) What do I have to do to prevent this happening in future? Is it going to take a ban?
+4 / -0
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Not too much of an issue if its just a custom game between 2 players doing some silly things... just no elo it if needed...
+1 / -0
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Deeloing every casual 1v1 i played would take away way more elo than the ...5%... The large majority of 1v1s i played were normal. A ban for this seems exxagarated also. Believe me or not i will try to avoid these joke games in the future.
+0 / -1
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quote:
just no elo it if needed |
The difficulty here is in identifying the games that need to be de-rated. There are a lot of games to sort through. And it is definitely not a task that I want to be doing in perpetuity. I agree that de-eloing every casual 1v1 played by TFF is going to catch quite a few games that probably ought to be rated, but the alternative of finding every problematic game is somewhere between "difficult and time-consuming" and "outright infeasible". Remember that at the end of the Code of Conduct there is the following: quote:
The goal of the Zero-K moderation team is to do the right thing by the Zero-K project. This goal includes but is not necessarily limited to:
(1) Generally making the Zero-K community a fun place for people to hang out and play the game.
...
(3) Maintaining an environment which allows the moderators to promote the above goals without unreasonable costs personally or to the community. |
Compromising the balance system is a problem when it comes to (1), and making me or other moderators do a bunch of work to resolve the situation is a problem for (3).
+4 / -0
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maybe decide before every game about the noelo option yourself?
+2 / -0
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If my games get noeloed, why doesnt this apply for everyone then? It was like 5% rank gain, whats the big deal...? Can i just like stop playing meme games and the thread will stop?
+0 / -0
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quote:
If my games get noeloed, why doesnt this apply for everyone then? |
As far as I know nobody other than you and maybe psaniac is systematically abusing casual 1v1 on meme maps/custom modes to manipulate their rating. If there are other people doing this, or otherwise abusing the system to manipulate their rating, I would like to know about it.
+3 / -0
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It was... 5% rank gain... Also no its not manipulating elo either, the games did involve some sort of skill and i am totally capable of beating psaniac in normal 1v1.
+0 / -2
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It's not just the games linked in this thread. It was also a huge pile of games played with the Arena mod. And I don't even know what else.
+1 / -0
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I lost almost all arena elo afaik. Or all of the arena elo at this point... So what do you propose...? Deeloing every 1v1 would do more harm than good imo. Can you tell me how its manipulating elo since the games did involve a surprising degree of skill and were not like... elo donations? Personal maybe biased perspective: Can we just leave my elo at its current state? Though i dont think this will happen..., though i intend to not play any more meme games if that is of some sort of relevance.
+0 / -0
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seems like it's mostly players who care about rank that care about rank. Unfortunately, rank doesn't tell how good a person is as a person, something I didn't voice before. At the same time, I try to think in the best interest of everyone, when possible. Giving an option to disable no-elo right before the game starts should help with the elo fudging. (Of course, if the two players agree.) Right now, it's too easy to forget to disable the option in the game. However, giving an option to disable elo is still a small fix for a grand, hypothetical problem. I also wonder how many people care about elo. Could be useful to make a poll for it and a questionnaire. We could get some statistics going, as I honestly don't know. (Maybe there was one poll already, but I missed it.)
+1 / -0
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quote:
I also wonder how many people care about elo. |
Elo for 1v1 is different from elo in teams. Elo in teams ensures also (some) balancing on team games. So you can't say both "I don't care about elo" and "I want a somehow balanced team game". Of course people could also say "I don't care about victory", but in that case I personally would prefer not to play with them - those people want a sandbox game not a team strategy game.
+3 / -0
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Maybe the zero-k team needs more moderators to deal with these kinda requests. Maybe respectable players could sign up as rookie moderators?
+0 / -0
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