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Proposal: remove the attrition chart from live games

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3 hours ago
Hi everyone,

I'd like to propose removing the attrition chart from live games.

Zero-K is a strategy game, not a spreadsheet, and part of the skill is doing the math yourself:
keeping a rough count of what you've traded, comparing mexes, energy and army with the enemy, and learning which trades are actually positive attrition.
The chart does that thinking for you, and it isn't even enabled for most players. So whoever has it is often playing against someone who doesn't.
If they see 150% and know the economies and armies are equal, they know exactly what they can raid without losing, while their opponent has to guess. Even when both sides see it, games get more linear: the leader plays safe, the trailing player is forced to gamble, and one number sets everyone's role. Without it, players will sometimes misjudge the game, and I think those mistakes make games more tactical and more fun, and to (watch as well)

The strongest counterargument is that the chart is a learning tool that shows newer players what positive attrition looks like. That's a real benefit, but people learn by reviewing or getting feedback, not by getting live answers. Keep the chart in replays and post- game stats, where players can study what happened without it deciding the game.
And if most players barely check it, we lose little by removing it, while the few who use it keep an edge over everyone else.

I'd like to hear what others think, especially higher level players :)
+0 / -0
Mh, how would one remove it? If someone wants an attrition counter they can easily remake it.

The attrition counter doesnt tell the full story, only counts visible kills and disregards what those kills were aswell as the mapstate and things you can't see like eco scalling etc.
Like any tool, it needs to be wielded and understood well to be usefull.
By the time you understand the what the attrition counter does and doesnt show you've usually gotten a feel for attrition yourself, and it serves more as a support tool than anything to really hang by.

I don't use it however.
+2 / -0
2 hours ago
Difficulty for the sake of difficulty is dumb. I'd just run it as a widget anyway so all you're doing is making it harder on everyone else.
+0 / -0

81 minutes ago
quote:
Zero-K is a strategy game, not a spreadsheet, and part of the skill is doing the math yourself:

I'd rather fight the enemy than math equations.
quote:
keeping a rough count of what you've traded, comparing mexes, energy and army with the enemy, and learning which trades are actually positive attrition.

All of these things are still skills. Attrition counter in a running game only displays the kills your team actually sees visibly, and all the other charts don't show the enemy until the game is over.
quote:
The chart does that thinking for you, and it isn't even enabled for most players.

Again, it doesn't actually do thinking for you. The chart only displays what you see, which means kill with artillery on radar dots (or building ghosts), silo and much more are not actually updated live. I do agree that it should probably be a default ui element tho, it's that useful.
quote:
Without it, players will sometimes misjudge the game

Even with it, players will misjudge the game, as it does not give perfect information.

Personally i don't think there is any cause for removing it. It's a tool that helps you gauge the gamestate that only presents the most conservative version of information. (exactly what you have seen get killed and what you have lost) The number is likely calculated from the ingame value killed / value lost charts, which was information that was already available anyway. The last thing i need in my life is to be forced to zoom out and look at the game only to be able to conclude nothing because my allies armies look moderate while the entire enemy frontline is cloaked.
+0 / -0