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Configure units stats before game begin?

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BRrankFortaleza
12 years ago
Considering that we have lots of balance Topics, is possible to do this?
So we can test changes in real game, and revert to default if not liking it?
And if we find a good balance change we could point to the replays...
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USrankluckywaldo7
12 years ago
Yes.

I'm not really sure it would make as much sense as you think though. To start with, what would lead you to decide that a balance change was good?
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GBrankTheEloIsALie
12 years ago
I agree that using this kind of "proof" puts the devs under unneeded pressure. Seeing the recent "DEVS ARE LAZY F*CKS"-comments, i feel like the community doesn't need more "i'm right, devs implement my idea right now".
Devs are mature and intelligent enough to decide themselves which changes they would support, we don't need people trying to force their opinions through. (Critic isn't specifically aimed at you fort, don't get me wrong).

Is my point getting across? I feel like i'm wording myself a bit too complicated for what i want to say...
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BRrankFortaleza
12 years ago
(edited 12 years ago)
Making the idea a little more "clear", i am say is to have a vote for exemple: give golly 20% more HP or make sumo cost less metal, etc... If the vote pass the change will be appliqued to that game, like a vote map or communist, etc...

quote:
To start with, what would lead you to decide that a balance change was good?

Can not really respond this in abstract. The players in game that will decide if the change was good or not for balance, them can post the replay link and say the reason to think that, so anyone can see and decide it for themselves too, make more test with the changes made, till there some consensus.

P.S.: just cause some guy's do "bad comments", do not mean everyone will do it, there can be some constructive good ideas from it.
And a real test will make bad idea more easy to detect too.

Anyway this just a suggestion, you Devs have the final world was always, do what you think its best...
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AUrankAdminSaktoth
12 years ago
It takes a lot of games to see the full effects of a change, which is why we move so slowly.

How the game is played changes dramatically over time without us touching a thing.
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SErank[Er0]Godde
12 years ago
Kernel Panic has this function. I think you can change any unit stat or weapon stat.
I think it could be useful for sandbox and 1v1 for testing stuff out. Applying it in teamgames sounds like a bad idea.
People be like: "I don't like dirtbags. Lets set price to 200."

Metagame changes too much to be able to determined by the players from just a few games. Popular opinion and teamgame metagame can change several times during a month.
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USrankluckywaldo7
12 years ago
(edited 12 years ago)
quote:
People be like: "I don't like dirtbags. Lets set price to 200."

This is the kind of thing I am worried about. Then no one makes any dirtbags, and everyone decides they like it so therefore it is balanced.

This is the kind of thing that belongs at concept stage -> should dirtbag even exist?

Balance doesn't happen by tweaking cost values until everyone decides they're happy because nothing stands out as OP. This kind of design will make your game Boring and Awful.

(That said, player feedback is massively important. But we still need devs/vets to run a sanity check on what people say they want.)
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BRrankFortaleza
12 years ago
(edited 12 years ago)
Well it would be just a tool, people that have bad ideas and post "DEVS ARE LAZY F*CKS" will exist anyway, having a new toll or not.

We wound still need devs/vets to run a sanity check like always, this new tool will just help to test changes.

quote:
I think it could be useful for sandbox and 1v1 for testing stuff out.

Agree, and some sandbox single player games with very silly stats would very fun.

If you are worry about team games, just do not allow it in team auto-host?


P.S.: Begin "Boring and Awful" and popular at same time seems contradictory.
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AUrankAdminGoogleFrog
12 years ago
quote:
Begin "Boring and Awful" and popular at same time seems contradictory.

lol
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USrankluckywaldo7
12 years ago
(edited 12 years ago)
quote:
Begin "Boring and Awful" and popular at same time seems contradictory.

It happens.

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USrankluckywaldo7
12 years ago
More back to topic though, it could be a cool feature.

Although you can already do modifications in closed testing: https://code.google.com/p/zero-k/source/checkout

Rename the mode folder to include a .sdd at the end (e.g. name the folder zk.sdd) and it spring will read it like it reads zipped game files.

If you want to do multiplayer testing you can make a mutator: http://springrts.com/wiki/Modinfo.lua
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BRrankFortaleza
12 years ago
That nice, but it's more of a Dev thing.

If players could easy test their ideas too, maybe there would less bad ideas.
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AUrankAdminSaktoth
12 years ago
They can easily look up stats in the unit guide or by browsing the repo online too but they never do.
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EErankAdminAnarchid
12 years ago
quote:
That nice, but it's more of a Dev thing.

even neon can fork zk.
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BRrankFortaleza
12 years ago
Yeah, but i do not think the "Average Joe" Player can.
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