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Idiots in game, please check: It's either me or them

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11 years ago
Replay link:
http://zero-k.info/Battles/Detail/196999

This time the Emperor Godde himself makes a shitty call and after gunship attack there are 4 slasher left and flamethrower com at 2000 hp.
I engage with rockos and leave 5 glaives on side.
Then get called out for not running into slashers like a moron.
Later in the game I get kickvoted fuck me why opposite team build multiple HLT at some point.
I understand Godde's frustration for having to play with newbies like me but basically all the other rejects trying to pick at me should shut up and croak.

Hopefully the replay gets watched (?)
Thanks for watching in advance.

I seek help on how to deal with the game situations I find myself in but the whiners rarely volounteer they just want me to magically win.

I will stop making Glaive there are a lot so ally is fooled into thinking you have a strong army and shout at you bad metagame from my side heavy veh start every time.
+1 / -1

11 years ago
So I noticed that there was a little bit of both in the replay you linked. When your team first engaged the slasher line you should have helped. Because of Lancaster's Law even the smallest units make a big difference in such a large engagement. I understand that you sort of sent some units in, but they didn't arrive in time to be of any use. In that case such a strategic gamble will only work if you attack with your allies, not slightly before, and not slightly after. If you see a large battle on your front door, send in what you have to help as it all makes a difference.


The major issue I saw (likely why a votekick was called) was when you lost your factory. At that point the ideal solution would have been to retreat (like you did), but then build another factory more suited to the current situation. CyberneticPony was angry that you decided to build up a turret line (yes when you have no fac building defenses at all will likely be considered porc).
+0 / -0
11 years ago
Thanks. I will attempt to do a scathing counter-review now.

Maybe it would be more interesting, should the post come as a screenshot guide to the game.


1) Above you see helpful spec advice:
``Supernoob get 2-3 builders and reclaim the metal around u''
My comm is here selected with the green circle.
Above you see wreckage, in a cool fluorescent blue.
Then you see THE MASSIVE SLASHER HORDE IN RANGE OF THE WRECKAGE.

I politically refuse to comment on the suggested zeus vs slasher matchup idk maybe good whatever don't have the metal.


2) Here is number 2! If you saw something suspicious in picture number 1 you were right! There was that green goo coming onto the reaper wreck, it's the enemy rezzing my allies reaper after it was walked into by the flamethrower comm and died. Reaper now alive, very timely.

As timely as comes the super spec advice:
``Those things u can fuck up with reaper. Yanom send in the reaper when they try push with slashers. Back it up with Glaives.''
Wow nice good thing we have a reaper and 10 Glaives thats a huge advantage versu----err a rezzed reaper and a horde of slashers and a trollcom.

Also I never understood this peoples thought process. You know what I'm talking about. There are people who speak in codeword all the time. They got a codeword for everything and it just means some indeciphrable aliens stuff. Here a codeword is displayed, the ``Backing up with''. You'd think it is some magical winning strat that makes us win but he is just telling me to run his reaper and my glaives into a reaper and slashers (And flamethrower trollcom).
Other notable codewords: 'Attack!', yes people managed to screw that up.
It usually means to run units into defense and donate wreckage to enemy.
'Help with air!' = Run air into mass antiair and donate wreckage to enemy while stripping your air force.
'I rush Eco!' = Will stall-build a singu for the next 15 mins then it will die to raiders. The Eco is a prostrat and advanced meta: There is no running into enemy and donating wreckage as there is nothing to run with!
If you know a meaning of ``Backing up'' that applies here and is not insane feel welcome to contribut lol.


3) Here is where I'm supposed to be running away (Which I am, yay), then rebuilding my factory.


4) Except as you see the slashers are pushing and I really can't.
If I ran further back the slashers would go further in.
And before you ask: My left ally is gunship, as seen from the gunship lab left, my right ally is the hevy veh reaper suicider. There's nothing to run behind ok no units.


5) If you wonder what is the right thing to do in this situation and guess walk my com into a HLT and the flamer trollcom and die you guessed right! Oh wait it's not me it's the hevy veh player RIP.
Also this is the first enemy HLT.


6) Here they make an another HLT on the hill! I guess the enemy team should've votekicked the dirty porcer, unfortunately they missed the opportunity! I didn't screenshot the enemy that made 7(!!!) defenders in a wall to spare them the eternal walk of shame. It could almost be considered bullying.


7) Here you see him push a bit further down and make a stardust and a third HLT.
Such spectacular unit play totally showed me the wrong of my porcer ways now I make only mobile unit all game every game and raise elo +300.

In the end I'm not sure what the heck is going on.
With secret inner circle stuff like ``Backings ups'' and ``Support'' and ``Kick porcer'' and ``Reclaim the metal in range of a slasher death row'' how is a confused outsider supposed to know when they need to ignore ally advice since its a crock of Tachyon Particles, and when to follow it. SUper hard game gg.


I read up on the Lancaster's Law. Or at least the Wiki article.
The Lancaster's Law seems to work in my opponent's advantage.
The 4 slashers can shoot my 5 Glaive before they are in attack range.
Also the flamethrower com can kill like 20. idk about the ramble about small units making a Big difference. Maybe westerner special snowflake mentality with tiny Glaive underdogs making a comeback against the big bad bullies.
Even if I beat the Lancaster's law in my disfavour and make cost by killing 3 of the 4 slashers: Still die to the 8(?) reinforcement slashers, no delay in losing my base versus what happened in the actual game, just more easily accessible wreckage for enemy.

Thanks for the extra condescending part about large battles ``on Front Doors'' and ``Sending What Your Have as it Makes a Difference''. Maybe also the sharecarebears should be involved to teach the power of love.
Also failed Banshee attack into antiair is now a ``Strategic Gamble'' which seems to be a new codeword! In surprise to everyone it literally just means sending stuff to die and free wreckage for the enemy.

For the Front Door Battle, a special 3 part mspaint-marked screenshot series for easier visualization:


1) This picture for example proves that I moved in first. So all the stuff about not moving in is really confusing. But it's okay, keep parroting Godde after all he complained about me not moving in so if you do the same maybe you too can have 2500 ElO.


2) This is a picture mid-attack.
A badly damaged Glave is pulled. Due to bad control, two additional Glaive are pulled. I guess I could have them stand in slasher fire for about 1 additional second until they are also red HP my bad.


3) Aftermath of the battle enemy dominating advantage remains

I still think my biggest mistake whole game was somthing random like not selfdestroying the factory to deny reclaim metal.

As no strategy was really suggested I came up with one: Making a pair of ticks, and positioning them behind front line so they cloak up. If the enemy pushes, maybe there is some hope if they drive a slasher ball directly onto the ticks.
+2 / -1

11 years ago
Take a few deep breathes and realize you were not really going to win this game anyway.

It's a 4 land players + air players comm holding the hill vs 2 land players, both of whom are sub 1400 elo. Both sides had 3 air players. This was a 8v9 which meant you had 12.5% more metal, but that doesn't make up for fighting 2v1 odds. So, it would have relied entirely on where the air players put their strength and who won the air war, since there is no way you could have won the ground war.

This is because there are 2 land players (3 land factories) fighting on the east, against the porc of an air player and a single other land player, and making no progress.

Make a report against a specific player if you have a problem with them, using the report on their user details page. We do not generally punish people for using the democractic voting the game allows though (And if the players do not wish to play with you, I suggest you take a break and come back at it with a fresh attitude) but kicking a player for being a noob is not legitimate in the 'all welcome' room.
+2 / -0
11 years ago
It's okay, if organized voting blocs are kosher with admin, I can always try to bring some accomplices and democratically vote the opposition out instead.

I think filing report even if the kick vote succeeded or was repeated multiple times would be bad karma. Though admittedly I did cry too hard and try to show I'm not actually guilty of what the claimed kick reason is in the forum posts above.
+0 / -0


11 years ago
quote:
Maybe westerner special snowflake mentality with tiny Glaive underdogs making a comeback against the big bad bullies.

quote:
Thanks for the extra condescending part about large battles ``on Front Doors'' and ``Sending What Your Have as it Makes a Difference''. Maybe also the sharecarebears should be involved to teach the power of love.

If you're trying to convince us that you're not the problem here, you might want to do a better job of it.
+2 / -0
Yeah, votekicking someone for not playing perfectly in the all welcome room isn't cool, I recommend reporting the starter of the vote.

Games where you're not even allowed to make mistakes are no fun. Personally I know this from left4dead2, where often a single mistake gets you votekicked.

Edit: Also, in this case it wasn't just about mistakes, there was unwarranted blame as well
+1 / -0
11 years ago
Actually I were on skype with CyberneticPony. He was mostly raging about having to play with noobs. Well that is to be expected if you play on my team since I have so high elo. :P
He raged and said that noobs don't have the right to be noobs.
I told him everyone has the right to be a noob/newb.

Anyway. I find it hard to give advice to players I don't know as I don't know if they understand the RTS terms I use like expand, harass or eco for example. I also have trouble finding time to watch newbs and giving advice during a game.

Don't take it personally. Games tend to make people excited. Some people get really frustrated in the heat of battle.
+5 / -0
It wasn't a very good call to attack there. But most likely we would have been pushed back in the middle so the alternative to hold back wasn't that good either.
I think that with full forces the Glaives and Rockos could have made big difference in the first attack.
You had 5 Glaives and 2 Rockos that werent doing mutch. Glaives have huge DPS so Glaives make a big difference if they can get in range which might even have allowed us to kill the commander. With your commander there to support we could have claimed the wreck field which would have made worlds of difference.
Of course. You can't always expect a new player to perform optimally.
+0 / -0


11 years ago
ZK teamgames with high contrasts of player skill are awful, its the whole reason troll culture is possible. ZK is great when the teams contain players of around the same skill levels, but your average pub 10v10 is just a festival of morons. As mentioned elsewhere, 9/10 ZK players are really, really terrible at the game and can only function in 10v10 porcfest.

quote:
You can't always expect a new player to perform optimally.


Its best to think of new player units as controlled by null AI.. they might fire at enemies that come in range but dont expect any useful activity
+4 / -0
SIrankSuperNoob14 I'm a bit annoyed at you for saying you were kickvoted. You implied that you were voted out. Upon watching the replay it turns out that one person voted in favour for kicking you. So where is the voting bloc?

We can't punish anyone for playing poorly or giving bad advice. It's a teamgame so your allies will have ideas regarding the big picture, they are not necessarily more correct than your own and you'd probably benefit from discussion. If somebody runs their army in and dies then perhaps you running in as well at the right time would have won it. The best thing to do is communicate.

People said stupid things but it was rarely malicious.

I watched the replay pretty quickly but CyberneticPony did not seem to say that much. As far as I could tell the only bad thing he did was start the votekick but when there are enough reasonable people around these votes do nothing.

As for my opinion on how you played that game. Your greatest problem was that you did not tell (and convince) the rest of your team to move another ground player to your front to fight the 1v2. But failing that you should have gone for defensive stall tactics. Glaives were useless and you built them to late. Zeus, some Rockos and Sniper with a lot heavier defense would have done well. You could afford this if you stopped building Glaives significantly earlier. I think CyberneticPony was wrong. Once you lost your factory building defenses was the best option. There were plenty of other factories in existence for your team and if you could stop the advance on your front your allies could use units to push them back. The defenses you built were a bit weak, I would have started with a nano turret and some heavier defenses, the turret could eventually reclaim the defense and make a factory.
+1 / -0


11 years ago
cloakies are generally pretty bad for defence and a bad choice for clusterfack games as their main strength is mobility and glass-cannon damage output. In stupid clusterfack games, heavy tanks or shieldbots are generally best.
+1 / -0


11 years ago
That is sort of true. Zeus can be good and Snipers are good if put in a defensive line.
+0 / -0

11 years ago
Tick is still one of the best units out there for an enemy advancing into your territory.
+0 / -0

11 years ago
also, attach a cloaker walker to your zeus/warrior ball.
+1 / -0


11 years ago
That's rarely useful when you are fighting on the front. Your opponent knows that you have units and knows roughly where they are.
+0 / -0


11 years ago
tick/zeus are pretty hopeless against competently used reapers imo
+0 / -0

11 years ago
I specced that game and I thought there was going to be a clever feint to draw in the comms/slashers. And kept expecting Godde to kick some ass, but he only did Avenger spam until near the end, and they weren't able to do a great deal due to intensive GA. A Krow (from Pony?) turned up near the end and bombed empty ground into oblivion, when it could probably have wiped out the slasher spam and might have turned things.

When the Reapers went in, they should have targeted the Slashers IMO to get the slasher spam under control. The shielded comm was too powerful to take down with that much firepower around him, on his own it would have different.

These seemed like bigger issues than anything SuperNab did. My main criticism of SuperNab would be the Lotus porcette against Slasher spam, that just isn't going to work because of the range disadvantage.
+1 / -0

11 years ago
"stupid clusterfack games"

Do you know that many players (e.g. me) appreciate these games, so could you please bit a bit less derogative?
+0 / -0
11 years ago
The more cluster, the more I like it.

If there isn't a (THIS IS... CRAZY.) bell going off in my head, I feel like I'm not really there.

SuperNoob14 got rather put-upon, but seriously, playing with nabs is part of the fun!

They're like a box of chocolates, and force you to adapt. It's part of the reason I like Zero-K, the drastic mismatch of playing ability.
+0 / -1
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