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Energy costs

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these are just the amount of m it costs to make 1 e/s with various e structures

metal cost of 1e/s

solar 70/2=35 m/e
wind 35/1.2=29.16 m/e
fusion 1000/35=28.57 m/e
5mex moho geo* 2250/100=22.5 m/e
2mex moho geo** 2100/100=21 m/e
1mex moho geo*** 2007/100=20.07 m/e (lol)
geo 500/25=20 m/e
singu 4000/225=17.77 m/e
moho geo**** 1500/100=15 m/e

*assumes goe was conected to 5 mex prooducing 2m/s
25/5=5
5=50% od
5*150=750m
1500+750=2250m cost (or a real moho geo)

**assumes goe was conected to 2 mex prooducing 2m/s
25/2=12.5
12.5=100% od
4*150=600m
1500+600=2100m cost (or a real moho geo)

* "..."
25=169% od
3.38*150=507m
1500+507=2007m

****moho geo without any linked mex taken into account

Overdrive e Costs
just some simple overdrive % to remember
5e=50% (4 solars around a 1mex make this 8e-3e from build e costs)
12e=100%
32e=200%
60e=300% (singu(3 mex cluster) takes 3.5 minutes to recover its cost)
96e=400%
140e=500%
192e=600%
252e=700% (singu takes 5 minutes to recover its cost)
320e=800%
396e=900%
480e=1000% (2 singu(and a bit) take 400s or 6.66 minutes to recover cost)
+2 / -0

10 years ago
Very familiar with that first set of stats, though I've never directly taken into account the metal lost from OD on geos (still efficient it seems, and on free BP).

OD seems way more effective than I expected though in longer games. Though I guess 280 metal for 50% overdrive is not that great for early game. Wind introduces a lot of variables here but is probably a fair bit better.
+0 / -0
avrage wind rate

calculation is (min wind*%chance of min wind)+(avarage wind*%chance avrage wind)
0-2.4 wing avarages 1.2
.6-2.4 wind avarages (.6*(.6/2.4))+((1.2+(.5*.6))*((2.4-.6)/2.4))=1.275
1.2-2.4 wind avarages (1.2*(1.2/2.4))+((1.2+(.5*1.2))*((2.4-1.2)/2.4))=1.5
1.8-2.4 wind avarages (1.8*(1.8/2.4))+((1.2+(.5*1.8))*((2.4-1.8)/2.4))=1.875
2.4-2.4 wind avarages 2.4

0 wind 29.16m/e
.6 wind 27.45m/e (beter then a fusion)
1.2 wind 23.33m/e
1.8 wind 18.66m/e (beter then morfing a moho)
2.4 wind 14.58m/e (beter then a moho)

1.62 wind 20m/e (beter then a geo)
1.92 wind 17.77m/e (beter then a singu)


also wind is beter then most eco because it makes you more e in tiny steps, so there is much less build time->income lag

2 cons can build a wind in 3.5 sec and a singu in 400sec

theoretical "lost" overdrive from 1 mex during build time
(for a few benchmarks) 5m/s bp cons*

2con wind
3.5*(2*14%)=.98m "lost"

2con solar
7*(2*(sqrt(1+2/4))-1))= 10m "lost"

2con fusion
100*(2*(sqrt(1+35/4))-1))= 524m "lost" 1/2 a fusion down the drain

2con mohogeo
(50+150)*(2*(sqrt(1+25/4))-1))= 877m "lost" free fusion!

2con singu
400*(2*(sqrt(1+225/4))-1))= 5653m "lost" free singu anyone?!

10con singu
80*(2*(sqrt(1+225/4))-1))= 1130 "lost"

20con singu
40*(2*(sqrt(1+225/4))-1))= 565 "lost"

+1 / -0
Skasi
Here's a table that shows the meaning of grid colors and times for different energy sources' metal cost to pay back (doesn't take energy cost into account). Note that it's based on the grid color and Energy/Metal ratio that is achieved after a building is complete.

Windgens' average output is close to the Fusion to Mohogeo range.

This chart is solely based on grid color, which in turn is based only on the Energy to Metal ratio of overdrive. Therefore the colors show exactly how efficient overdrive is. A rate of overdrive (eg 100%, 200%) or a base income per mex (eg 2.0, 2.5) were not needed to create this list.



The left half shows extremes. The right half probably covers the majority of serious games. Pink is used for grids when overdrive is not active. This happens 1) when an energy source is not connected to a metal extractor or vice versa, 2) when stalling energy.
+5 / -0

10 years ago
Just make annihilator cost a lot of energy per shot, want constant annihilator laser? will cost like 2-3 fusions of energy .I suggest same thing for other energy dependent weaponds except ddm and behemoth.
+2 / -0
Skasi
ROrankForever, you mean like in BA or early versions of CA? Energy cost for shooting was removed long ago. Not sure if there should be some random exceptions, especially when it doesn't matter at all in mid-late game. I'd rather see it integrated into grids somehow, like currently, 'cause then at least you can disconnect them from energy with raids.
+0 / -0
10 years ago
1. i have not seen an anihilator ingame all week

2. you already can disconect an anihilator from grid

3. you are off topic, and energy cost for firing is not posible with ZK econ*


*in zk econ the energy "floats" around 50% level, the excess goes into overdrive, making periodic and massive reductions in that energy level will [a] cause lag as it recalculates the grid [b] screw up overdrive econ horibly [c] cause random estall since zk does not have energy storages
+0 / -0


10 years ago
Actually regular storage also stores E, and thus causes your overdrive to kick in slower.
+2 / -0
10 years ago
compare BA e storage that stores 4000e? per storage to ZK storage that stores 500e per storage...

asuming you mean to ad a significant e cost to firing, you would need at least 500e/shot since curent anni takes up 50e and has 10 second reload
+0 / -0
Skasi
quote:
Actually regular storage also stores E, and thus causes your overdrive to kick in slower.

It makes your OD more balanced in the long run. Less up and downs with E-investment means higher OD efficiency. That's also why windgens are slightly below their average when it comes to how useful they are for OD.

GBrankKyubey, keep in mind that in BA energy costs are x10. CA divided them all by 10 back in the days. So 500 -> 5000 vs 4000.
+0 / -0
but BA also does not have metal makers that are capable of lag freesing the whole game evry time they shut down (unlike zk see: solar farm of doom)
+0 / -0


10 years ago
That superweapon might no longer be operational.
+1 / -0
we shall test this for !!science!!

prepare to hear the screams and see the broken bodies of various bystanders!!!


later:
i hope your happy EErankAdminAnarchid
many bystanders lie dead at your feet
http://zero-k.info/Battles/Detail/237129
+0 / -0

10 years ago
Imo i think its best to give annihilators that abillity, it will make them more complex and more dependable on energy power. Also instead of annihilator spam you just make one and micro it!.
+0 / -0
10 years ago
It would make porc more interesting and viable and is therefor a terrible, terrible idea. We already have way too much porc in teams.
+0 / -0

10 years ago
That's a pretty good Chart Skasi, is it based on 2.0 metal extractors?
+0 / -0

10 years ago
Annihilators and ddms are not used in teams GBrankTheSponge, there is a reason for that, they die fast to arty.
+0 / -0

10 years ago
GIving annihilator the constant need of 150 or 100 energy for his permanent fire shot will balance it imo.
+0 / -1
Skasi
AUrankAdminSaktoth, you did not understand the chart. Hmm, I've got to make it more clear somehow. Just can't figure out how. Extractors don't have any effect on the chart, it's all about grid colors and E->M conversion rate.

I added some bold text just above the table in an attemt to further explain its meaning.
+0 / -0


10 years ago
GBrankKyubey, the potential fix is on Oxygen, your science is wrong :|

Though i loved the fireworks!
+0 / -0
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