IsisDelta_v02 map

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Skasi

10 years ago
(edited 10 years ago)

Made new boxes. !split v 30 used to be very big for such a small map and !split v with numbers smaller than 30 means spawn positions are very unsymmetric.

+0 / -0

[ISP]Lauri

9 years ago

This map gets rarely played in 1v1 and there doesn't seem to be much value in having it in the 1v1 rotation. I'll untag it for 1v1 unless objections are made.

+3 / -0

Orfelius

9 years ago

YES YES YES. Please unfeature it compleatly. Its a very strange map where no factory really works well. All land factories are restricted to the top and bottom crossing and so are hovers and amphs.
You would expect amphs and hovers to work here huh? nothing more evasive because there is too little room for hovers to take any evasive manouvers and the river is too shallow to heal\hide amphs. And hills between the river crossing make them die to porc. Also islands' ramps are unaccesable by hovers despite from what F1 says.
You would expect that jumpjets will be good because of the ridges, but no. They have to cross the shallow water crossing too right into enemy lines.
You would expect then that air would work great on this map! NO. It will die to defender spam because there are too many mexes close to each other.
How come can this map be so bad for ALL of the factories?
The only thing defending it is that it is quite eye pleasing. But still gameplay should be the major factor deciding which map should be featured and wich shouldnt.

+0 / -0

Flipstip

9 years ago

It is an interesting map, though start spots are unbalanced, west has three mexes on high ground.
Orfelius wants to say that every fac has up and downsides on this map.

+2 / -0

Jasper

9 years ago

This map is fine in teams

+0 / -0

[1uP]Willk

9 years ago

Yea, this is an excellent Teams map, that makes for some interesting mix teams with ships or hovers fighting at the bottom, and land closer up, with they intermingling within the delta. Keep it.

+0 / -0

GoogleFrog

9 years ago

Which side has the advantage in 1v1?

+0 / -0

[2up]knorke

9 years ago

To see which side wins more often I went to http://replays.springrts.com/
(because zK replays site does not show start positions)
For 1v1 in XTA there were not many matches on this map. Some matches I recognized as uneven because I know one player was MUCH better than the other, so I was not sure if to count those.
In the end I got:
Left wins: 5
Right wins: 3

For 1v1 in BA there were more games so I decided to just get 20 results then stop.
Again I was not sure which matches qualifed as "serious", for example if startpositions seemed really bad chosen etc. Or if the same two players played a series of matches, so can mess up results too with so small sample size.
So again I ignored some matches based on that, and in the end I got:
Left wins: 11
Right wins: 9

=> From match results I could not find any imbalance.

So not really excact methode, but I think there is no excact data anyway.

The map is strange one for sure, it gets discussed often in battlerooms and it seems to put players out of their comfort zones. I do not like it so much either, somehow it "feels trange."
The sides are different but I could not say which one is better, so from players perspective the map does not look unbalanced.
Maybe in zK there could be some minor difference because some mexes are on higher ground which might matter for overdriving them with wind? But that is minor imo.
Imo what matters more than any asymmetry in the terrain is the asymmetry created by players picking their startpositions or factories.

tl;dr: maybe.

+0 / -0

GoogleFrog

9 years ago

So if we cannot say which side has the advantage does it matter whether it is theoretically imbalanced? It is a decent size for 1v1 and in my experience there are many viable factories so I think it is a good map to keep for 1v1.

+1 / -0

[2up]knorke

9 years ago

quote:
So if we cannot say which side has the advantage does it matter whether it is theoretically imbalanced?

In this case: no.

Long bla:
There are/were imbalances in other maps, for example metalspots of different values or one side missing a geo. That is very obvious "theoretical imbalances" that gives advantage to one side.
If such thing gets noticed then it sometimes gets fixed, but did anyone ever do a statistics if it really mattered for outcome of matches?
There is not enough "valid" data to notice imbalance trends in maps.

+0 / -0

Skasi

9 years ago

I quite like this map for the wide range of viable factories. On top of that it looks pretty, shows off different terrain features (cliffs, ramps, shallow water, deep water), has an interesting metalmap and even reclaimable obelisks. That's also why I picked it for the sandbox "mission", I thought it'd give a good impression.

+2 / -0

Anarchid

9 years ago

I disagree with almost every criticism said thus far about this map, and replace it with my own:

It is not pretty.

+0 / -0

Aquanim

9 years ago

Speaking of... I actually find it quite awkward in the sandbox "mission" since there isn't really enough open space to test some things.

I guess I should just work out how to start a cheats game on Comet Catcher or something.

FWIW the factories I've most commonly seen here are amph and jumps. I've also seen Transports and Djinn here more commonly than on most maps.

+0 / -0

TheEloIsALie

9 years ago

This is basically the first map I saw from ZK (maybe after "Running Start"'s Fields of Isis). I was positively impressed.

I'll have to agree with Skasi here. It's one of the least "boring" maps for a new player.

+0 / -0

dahn

3 years ago
(edited 3 years ago)

Missing this map. Should be in 1v1 rotation imo.

The game has significantly changed in these years, we have a lot of new units which can jump and throw.

Also it is pretty, I don't get how "comet catcher"s are more pretty than a nice shiny map with a lot of work in features and balancing the asymetrical terrain.

Imbalance can be tested better now, more accurately, with the new rating capabilities and more players, more matches. I doubt the imbalance is significant. Eager to see the real numbers.

Symmetrical maps become boring with time faster.

Asymetrical ones are also much more interesting for newcomers for sure as you have more chances to see various common and uncommon strats than on typical "titan duel"s or "comet catcher"s.
E.g. show me a single effective use of newton turret on any of the classical maps in 1v1. Here I can point a few from the first glance.

+1 / -0

Jamtime360

3 years ago

Yes please, anything to get rid of comet catcher the stinger rush map.

+0 / -0

IsisDelta_v02

PLAY ON THIS MAP

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