In addition, if there are going to be mods that make units dodge so well, all projectile speeds need to be rebalanced.

I once accused PetTurtle of using AI in a cloak v cloak match on quicksilver. His units were all just microd so well in unexpected ways, but at the time, he flat out denied it. Was there more truth to that situation, which was leading upto this one?

Whilst this kind of stuff IS interesting, afaic it's more fuel on the no-custom-widgets allowed in ranked mm games fire.

Great job ruining it for all of us.

I want this dodging merged to master, it's pretty good. B)

End skirm oppression!

I am pleased this exists as it means I'll stop having to micro reavers to avoid skirm shots. That's tedious boring shit and a good game should not require tedious boring shit for you to win.

PetTurtle: When's the PR coming?

Though this'll of course mean some rebalancing changes so there are counters to things like Reaver spam in each factory... Probably just adding a slight homing effect for Bouy, Ronin and Rogue.

quote: also disable custom widgets for matchmaker games.

I like that idea, since I don't use any widgets at all, it seems kind of unfair.

quote: Really speaks a lot about people using such unfair advantages in ranked games and being upset like USrankShaman when it's exposed.

I believe Shaman's comment was more along the lines of "ruining the making of widgets in general" rather than "ruining the secret that this particular widget exists".

quote: Reminds me when that one guy had an actual AI play the game for him. Or all those other completely legal unit catapult aimbots.

Archangel had an AI play the game for him. The admins came to the conclusion that this was untenable and required Archangel to stop. Archangel did not stop, which was a contributing factor to Archangel's subsequent permanent ban from the community. When something is determined to in fact be unacceptable abuse of widgets/AI control/similar we do take that seriously.

I am not aware of a compelling reason to designate any unit catapult widget I know about as not legal. They don't seem to result in degenerate gameplay.

quote: Here's a radical suggestion, actually punish such intentional cheaters.

I don't see a reasonable case for this being bannable. The admins could conceivably decide that future use of such a widget is bannable but that is a very different thing to it being bannable retroactively. I think even that is pretty unlikely in this case, since the line between valid and invalid unit micro from a widget is difficult to define, GoogleFrog is generally against bans for things of this kind, and I believe there are ways to make this widget infeasible in a technical sense instead (although they may be distasteful).

That having been said, if RiposteR requests it I am willing to tag this game as no-elo.

In a game that has a "competitive" ladder, I don't see how can this be considered acceptable to use.

If you watch the game, Riposter's Buoys were almost useless, they've been balanced around enemy units not auto-dodging. Riposter has made a strategical decision to make Buoys against Warriors and Knights, which in normal circumstances would be fine, but here they've been useless.

What is Riposter meant to do in this situation? Just suck it up and accept playing a loss against a cheater? Tough luck buddy, but PetTurtle's cheats aren't considered cheating, never mind him using them in the competitive ladder to gain an unfair advantage against someone who doesn't know this widget exsits, nevermind that his opponent is using it.

I'd still like to know PT's thought process into thinking this is an OK thing to be doing. Is he not a fan of dealing with skirms so he considers cheating against them acceptable? How is this different from an FPS player not enjoying aiming so programming something to aid him in this regard. Where is the line here Aquanim if this is not considered cheating? Because this doesn't even seem gray to me.

This widget gave such an advantage it decided this game very quickly, as a result of Riposter's unit choices, which in a normal game would have been fine.

A widget that gives a game winning advantage to one player over the other, who does not even know he is up against it, is not cheating?!

cheat

verb

1.
act dishonestly or unfairly in order to gain an advantage.
"she always cheats at cards"

This widget and replay is a textbook definition of the word.

quote: Riposter has made a strategical decision to make Buoys against Warriors and Knights, which in normal circumstances would be fine, but here they've been useless. What is Riposter meant to do in this situation?

What's @Riposter supposed to do against someone manually microing a Reaver to avoid being hit by Bouy shots?
I think the issue here is unit AI not being very good and thus some unit interactions being imbalanced with high micro.

btw: every contest is unfair in some way so that's not a very compelling argument. Some people have more experience, have examined unit combinations, watched many replays, set up keyboard shortcuts or discover an OP unit combination and some have made unit AI improvements. That's life, deal with it.

Now, in this case it'd be bad for some to use the widget and some not to because the game isn't balanced around the widget so you get less fun games. Hence there should be changes to zk.

quote: Take advantage of the fact that they are not directing their attention elsewhere on the map.

I assume this was written in error, as the person was not spending any attention on micro. Which is the topic of this discussion. Or maybe I'm dumb, delete this if I completely misunderstood.