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I feel Zero-K isn't fun for half the ppl involved in big games

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19 hours ago
I've played a few games of Zero-k. I've won a few, sometimes where I had strong game impact and other times not. I've had plenty of experience in other RTS games, so excuse my poor ranking. But feel free to correct me if there is a general sentiment against my opinion. I believe that half the lobby of big games don't actually enjoy playing them.

Of games that have a high density of players per map size, by the 15 minute mark, half the players become insignificant. More than often, these players aren't doing with agency. They are stuck in a support role where they are either fodder or ineffective and or act as an eco booster. On the contrary, when I play on a lower density player map, I feel strong, effective, and I know the reason why I, as a player, contributed to winning or losing the game. I've played other RTS games (WZ2100, SC2, WC3, etc...) that no matter the density, I feel how I as a player contributed to winning or losing the game.

Given this opinion, which I would like to know if people agree or disagree, why do big Zero-K lobbies feel this way?

Are there ways Zero-K can evolve to make players feel more significant even on higher density maps?


+1 / -0


18 hours ago
It's an income thing; if you're stuck at <20 income the whole game, it's hard to execute a strategy and see it bear fruit in a reasonable amount of time. The extent to which 16v16s work is thus dependent on the income available on the maps being played on. Most RTS games cap out at 8 or 10 players, so it's not surprising that Zero-K runs into problems other games don't when it's working with 3x the players. I'd argue that big teams in ZK still work better in giving all players an impact than comparably sized games in BAR, where the lack of communism and exponentially scaling metal maker eco means that most players are irrelevant once a couple players on each team start snowballing their economies to exceed all other players on their team combined.
+1 / -0
Not sure you noticed the (huge) thread about big vs smaller games at https://zero-k.info/Forum/Thread/38821 which touches on some of the topics you mention.

I think some players prefer avoiding needing to have too much impact because that involves more effort and stress. They are here for goofy strategies that works 1 in 10 times, for some social interaction and seeing units moving and explosions. I think it's a reasonable expectation for a game, but I do agree with you that this results in some people (half?) in the big game being unhappy.

That being said the best ZK players manage to have an impact even in a 16v16, but I feel that the skills are different than in a 3v3 for example and, of course, one might prefer one game style over the other - it's a personal preference.

Not sure if aware, but 16v16 game size is only in the weekend, during the week maximum size was 11v11.

+1 / -0