There have been quite a few suggestions, so I'll try to list the general ideas and their advantages here to get an overview. All playable maps
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Huge variety with hundreds of maps including all featured and supported maps
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Every game plays differently because of different terrain
MM Pool
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More variety than most other games with a few dozen maps
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Maps are already well tested to each allow a variety of strategies
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Map makers have a good chance of seeing their map in the game (Encourages community content creation)
Refined selection
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A handful of maps reworked to be of similarly high visual quality
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Newbies can quickly develop map specific strategies due to the small pool
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Strategically balanced maps allow the full game to be explored on each map
[Spoiler]
Most "other games" come with a rather tiny selection of multiplayer maps, especially in their first release. There are even many cases where the community ends up playing 90% of their games on a single map. In this sense I think we might actually leave a better first impression by having a selection of less than a dozen well refined maps, ranging from 1v1 to 16v16 sizes.
Of course we're all used to the variety of maps that are around, but we're also used to them looking pretty bad. I don't know if mapmakers are interested in refining the existing maps, but just having a handful of neat looking(diffuse,spec,bump,splat,features) versions of the most popular maps should be more than enough variety for whoever comes new into the game. More maps can be "released" later as the meta starts being limited by the pool. Slowly and carefully choosing each map should help in showing the game's balance and variety.
Maps of similar size should have very distinct visual and layout differences, making it easy to tell them apart. For example a selection of big maps could be Folsom Dam(earth, water + lanes), Titan 2(alien, hills + narrow) and Sima("metallic", flat + wide) (I wanted to say Industrial Revolution, but it's too much looks and too little gameplay). This is a pretty bad selection and I'm sure we could do a lot better, it should just serve as an example.
Of course I'm biased, so let me know what I forgot about each possibility. Either way I think this should have its own thread. For such a pool to make any sense, it should apply to all common game modes: Big Teams, COOP, FFA (popular among friends/clans trying the game in private rooms). This could be implemented in many different ways, for example as public rooms, MM queues or map limitations for each of the existing game types.
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I'd go with refined selection. People can play whatever maps they like through custom rooms, due to how the lobby works, but having 10-12 set maps per game type with matchmaking is something I was pushing for years ago, and given the size of the MM pool I'd say it was a worthwhile push.
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Besides the maps used in 1v1-4v4 matchmaking, I think it's very important to at least have a few maps for chickens and FFA. I would also like to see a few large teams and water maps. I'm less keen on 'silly' maps but potentially one or two of those as well. In other words I think it's important that the starting map pool gives you the ability to explore all of the common "game types" of ZK. EDIT: Also, I think that goal is quite achievable without a significant increase to the download size. The "featured maps" download size looks a bit scary but a lot of those maps really aren't necessary.
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    Aquanim with your proposal I think the UI of the matchmaking should be changed to accommodate the exploration of different game type like similar to league: Matchmaking -> 1v1 -> Team -> 2v2 3v3 4v4 -> Custom -> Chicken silly FFA
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Or we could just add a larger pool once we steamrelease. All deficiency can be removed here But for the start, we need Refined pool. Simply because it's already been checked, tested, and even refined, instead of all playable maps/MM, some of which many might never play. We could also do a popular map, in which we download most of the maps a majority of the ZK population play (CCR/redcomet/TD) Also, it must download fast and put priority on maps which people are playing, but user does not have
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quote:
Btw CArankAdminShadowfury333 could you update that maplist? I'd do it but I feel like I would be a little biased because of my map that turned out to be quite popular. |
If I could find the maplist. I was looking for it yesterday but didn't see it on the GitHub wiki, so I'm not sure where I put it. Maybe it's a different part of the Zero-K GitHub.
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I'd like to repeat myself here: Make it so the match-making map pool grows as player level increases. Have the lobby auto download maps for the next level(s) while no game is in progress. This way players could jump into the game after downloading 1GB. Many games have installers that first get the essentials for a "Playable" version and later keep pulling more for an "Optimal" installation. Sometimes that's still not everything, but enough to cover 90% of the game time.
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You have proposed CCR. Is there somebody volunteering to remake it, or do you think the grey flat rectangle represents zk graphics well enough? Just by adding a comet/tma style map border and a varied texture, the terrain could actually become visually interesting without affecting gameplay.
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quote:
adding a comet/tma style map border ... without affecting gameplay. |
What happens in reality: reef spam and spiders sneaking on the border, then someone adds acid/lava to remove reefs and people start to defend edges by throwing enemies into lava wit newtons. This is ZK, everything can and will be abused :P Hm, now i actually kind of want to see this version of ccr ...
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Do you see reefs and terraform happening around Seth's ravine? Newtons can already now throw units off map. As for spiders, maybe add a "gravity" gadget that pulls units on the slope towards the pit... Effectively this should just emulate the outside of map area many other games have, where the battlefield is limited to a smaller section in the centre of the map yet there is an interesting environment which improves the map's appearance and realism. Alternatively we could just use any of the other maps that play similarly to CCR without being CCR.
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If people accept CCR not being in the pool, I'm quite happy with that, but I figured there'd be riots if it wasn't included. Anyway, I've updated the proposal page, including the suggestion to see what would be a small pool (6 maps, in this case).
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I think CCR is quite an important map. Compared to other maps, it's kind of special in that it focuses economy and unit interaction, while terrain only plays a minor role for the most part.
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Indeed CCR is a special map that most seasoned zk players would expect in the pool. But its design could hardly be any more simple and boring. Have you ever seen such a map in starcraft or any other commercial RTS? @Mapmakers do you think it's impossible to make a map that is gameplay wise the same as CCR but with a design that makes you want to zoom in, look at each detail and wonder how this came to be a battlefield? The TMA style border would be just one simple possibility, but I think one could become a lot more creative while preserving the gameplay. Assuming similar size and mex values, how much different is Absolution from CCR?
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Comet Catcher is one of the iconic TA maps, TA is a commercial RTS. It could at least get some players exciting for nostalgic reasons, for the same reason perhaps Supreme Commander maps like Seton's Clutch (Small Supreme Islands) or Field Of Isis could be included too.
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Yeah but the Supreme Islands and Fields of Isis are not the best maps.
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Are we trying to make our own game, coming up with a new kind of RTS, or are we trying to ride the PA train factory and get everybody on board by their nostalgia? Wouldn't it be more suitable to apply our interface and infrastructure to BA? I know it's the easier way to get others interested by showing them something formerly successful and presenting a successor, but I believe ZK is exactly not trying to be the free to play supcom rip-off. What impression does it make when you come in here and see exact copies of TA, SupCom or StarCraft maps being played? CCR could be a virtual combat arena. A perfectly flat map (not even any of those annoying craters for Skasi ). Maybe using the tron shader to make it visually interesting. Or a part of an industrial complex. Or the surface of a dyson ring. There are many reasons for a map to be flat, but the surface of a cratered comet just really isn't.
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Nothing wrong with a simple map like CCR, as long as there aren't many similar ones.
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