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Title: [A] Teams All Welcome (32p)
Host: Nobody
Game version: Zero-K 1.10.7.0
Engine version: 105.1.1-841-g099e9d0
Started: 42 days ago
Duration: 9 minutes
Players: 29
Bots: False
Mission: False
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42 days ago
2 singu, 1 fusion, 1 nuke and 1 scylla all being built at the same time north. Before any effort is made to cap mexes or secure a frontline.
+2 / -0


42 days ago
Bring back palladium
+2 / -0
42 days ago
Its the usual, what did u expect in lobpot?
+0 / -1

41 days ago
quote:
Its the usual, what did u expect in lobpot?


call me idealistic, but in a "team" game, i would expect "team" effort, not singleplayer behaviour.
+2 / -0
41 days ago
DErankAdminmojjj

Where does '"team" effort' start? Where does it end?

Example:
The single lob rushing a singu often decides the game if the rest of the team survives the early game. Not much "team" involved while rushing that singu, afterwards the singu player is often responsible for most(50%+) of a teams metal income.
Other perspective:
How much "team" is involved in a front plays with mostly only the own units and few coordination?
Counter example:
https://zero-k.info/Forum/Thread/35439?Search=&User=&grorder=&grdesc=False&grpage=1
Team working together to achieve something...questionable.

Were probably expecting to much from players.
Your thoughts? DErankAdminmojjj
+0 / -1
quote:
call me idealistic, but in a "team" game, i would expect "team" effort, not singleplayer behaviour.

If you play (random) Match Maker Team games, you'd understand team only means that violence is illegal against half of the tards.

Especially "team" games where credits and experience rewards come from personal performance. The "good" player meta involves in noticing when to play for the win bonus, and when to maximize damage/capture/personal objectives at expense of others on the team.

As for bad play, remember half of humanity is below average~~
+2 / -1
41 days ago
Why do you see paladin rushes are questionable? They are definitely a common project to which everybody agrees.

Team could mean "don't play like you are alone". Starting 4 projects is fine. Not noticing 3 others are started, not communicating at all (hey! do only nuke or scylla! help my fusion! etc.) and not ever adapting the strategy is not "team play".

Without any interaction sometimes it feels like I am playing with bad AI-s.

There are also good players that don't announce some crazy plans - which means that front players are surprised (oh, there is 50% drp in the back?!). With the funny side effect that you end up with two 50% drp occasionally. You start a building that will take 10 minutes to complete, place a marker "starting drp". Now that I think of it - would it be a good idea for widget that shows "expensive things team is building"? Like an extra window that shows all team projects larger than 4k (singu), and eta...
+2 / -0



41 days ago
Sounds like a great widget malric but getting players to use it, particularly bad ones, will be the struggle.

I've already said it enought times by now but again these frustrations come from decent, invested players having to play with anything from complete beginners to people who still think newton ramps are hIlArIoUs. And these frustrations won't go away unless that changes.
+1 / -0
DErankSnowlob
quote:
The single lob rushing a singu often decides the game if the rest of the team survives the early game. Not much "team" involved while rushing that singu, afterwards the singu player is often responsible for most(50%+) of a teams metal income.

This is why you are copper and the balancer thinks your contributions are negligible to a game outcome. The singu spammer is a detriment to a team, not some master strategist that is responsible for a teams victory.

Get this through your thick skull, if you decide to make a singu early: YOU ARE LEAVING THE GAME, YOUR TEAM HAS TO PLAY WITHOUT A PLAYER FOR THE MOST SIGNIFICANT PART OF THE GAME.

You are not helping, you are not a master 4d chess tactician, you are watching everyone else carry you in spite of your abysmal contribution. It takes metal extractors and territory to pay off a singu, there's a time and place to make eco and it is not at the start of a game.

If a team wins with these selfish pricks, it's because the remainder of the team was performing significantly above their rank or the enemy team made mistakes.
+1 / -2
DErankSnowlob

doing a big (reasonable) project alone is fine. noticing others about it is neat.

not checking that there are more people which do the same is not.

singus might be reasonable, but somewhere in this weight class is the fine line between playing teamgame vs singleplayer, as you are taking a time off the game till your project kicks in.

4 singus at the same time from different people are not contributing to the team.

detri from start is definately not contributing.

see my point?
+1 / -0



41 days ago
I'll add more context specifics:

Doing a singu at the start might be okay if your team has more than 8 players and good ability to hold the line, but if there's 3 or 4 of you, not great no.

If there's one thing that makes no sense to me at all, it's when people pick recon commanders, skip base mexes and plop as close to middle as possible.... In a 3v3.
+1 / -0
Brown rank players are not good and must be doing something quite wrong to get that rank, regardless of whether they are at front or rear. If they are at front, they are likely heavily feeding metal, taking reclaim or conduct inexplicable actions that mess up specializing teammates thinking they can rely on the brown's army (moving AA cover away at very bad times, bad use of artillery, screening units, defensive riots and so on).

The problem with north team is that two silver players rush singu. Now Singu is on average a 2000 elo play, but not when there is two players doing it. The other problem is top players on low ground is both doing lances, which pays for itself slowly resulting in lost ground, and unit mass is provided by golds that is not doing it efficiently, with poor attrition and synergy. High ranked player on the hill does snitches, which is again a late starting strategy. Finally the lance specialist is doing solo forward high ground fact that get sniped early resulting in lost map control and horrible eco.

Sometimes teams just are poorly composed with regard to strategy relative to the other team, and this does not only apply to excessive rear investment. You see games where a team of hard-pushers gets stalled out on 55% territory against porc/terraform spammers and lose due to lack of energy investment, lose attrition to striders, lack of antinuke or slower super.

Teams really loses hard not because bad players are bad because they are always bad, but mid-high ranking players choosing a bad strategy for a situation. There are a lot of players that are good in a particular style, and a team composed of multiple players with the wrong style for the situation is asking for bad losses.

Two good porcer on the north team or no-accumulation "rally-intensive high skill micro" player could have stalled for eco and heavier units to kick in, but they didn't have such players.
+2 / -1


41 days ago
quote:
Brown rank players are not good and must be doing something quite wrong to get that rank, regardless of whether they are at front or rear.


Brown rank players exist because they're in the top 60% of players. Even if everyone was at your level, there'd still be brown players. It is percentile based, not points based.
+3 / -0
41 days ago
quote:
Brown rank players exist because they're in the top 60% of players. Even if everyone was at your level, there'd still be brown players. It is percentile based, not points based.

While true in the extreme case everybody will have very similar skill, if we check now the numbers, there seem to be a rather large spread of the actual "score". So I think in the current situation the brown color tells something about the difference in winning chances (not sure is only skill, can be also focus, wish to win, time spent playing, etc.), even if this is not true in all possible situations.

It would be interesting to know how does the ladder range (minimum score versus maximum score) evolved over time, but doubt we have that data. Now is ~700 to ~3400
+0 / -0
quote:
Brown rank players exist because they're in the top 60% of players. Even if everyone was at your level, there'd still be brown players. It is percentile based, not points based.

This is technically true, but doesn't really change what "having brown rank in 2022" conveys about "what WHR thinks of your typical impact on your team's chances of winning".
+1 / -0

41 days ago
If you look at the ranks of people who haven't played in a long time, they are almost all the black rank, the worst in the game, even though some of them were probably the best of their time. Why is that? Is it because people got better over time, or just because we have more people now so there is a wider range?
+1 / -0
"Grey" sometimes also means "this player has not played recently enough to have a colour", and when they next play a game their colour will update to reflect their rating properly.

That being said, since colour is determined by "ladder rating" (which does not update when you play no games) rather than the raw WHR values (which does), and WHR has tended to inflate over time, somebody who has not played in a long time will probably have a low colour until they play enough for their ladder rating to catch up. For example this probably has something to do with why PLrankAdminSprung, who played very little between 2016 and mid-2022, was somewhere below gold for ages but is now dark blue after a handful of games.

+2 / -0
40 days ago
unknownrankTinySpider when did this turn into personal offence? Ever heard of the term "outecoed"?

TWrankshin_getter I do not agree with you there. My current opinion is that 3 Owls can decide a game! Same as a red lvl 20 can decide a game! It often takes only 1 stunt to tip the scales into a irreversible downwards spiral #!resignable.
+1 / -1

40 days ago
I don't know what unknownrankTinySpider is whining about but my team resigned early here. I had the widows to counter the entire West side and from there we could have turned the game easily.
+0 / -1


40 days ago
I now understand the utility of AUrankAdminGoogleFrog's "fractally wrong" expression...
+0 / -2
Page of 2 (27 records)