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Games to Get Smarter

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How should I pick my next game? Popularity? Ambition? Depth of mechanics? This time I choose to binge on (or at least catalog) games that increase the player's intelligence. Every planning challenge based game trains deductuion in some way. So, for this list and thread, I want games that do more. For example the game trains a skill, simulates tough concept or method of problem solving. Artsy creativity and hallmarks of culture go in a different thread. Suggest n discuss. Heres what I have so far;

Cosmic Supremacy; AI programing
Democracy 1-3; See complex systems as a web of cause effect.
Portal; Really explore spatial movement
Achron; Time paradoxes


http://www.listal.com/list/games-made-me-smarter

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10 years ago
Europa Universalis IV, e.g.
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Skasi
GeoGuessr might fit here well.

Wouldn't many machine/logistics building games fit here well too? Things like OTTD, Simutrans, Factorio, etc. Same probably counts for many puzzle and perhaps even some exploration games, right?
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I'd say virtually any game that somehow relates to programming stuff makes you smarter: You develop problem solving skills. It will only make you "smarter" though if it doesn't revolve around (mechanically) applying an algorithm but if it lets you solve problems in a creative way.

Sometimes it depends on what you do with the game: You can play minecraft by spanking sheep and digging dirt, but you can also build entire CPUs in it. You'll likely learn more with the latter (for example, back when you had nothing but torches and dust, I wrote a program [outside of minecraft] that would figure out how to combine the NOR gates [which is how the torches work] to recreate an arbitrary gate given its truth table [including arbitrary numbers of inputs and outputs] with simulated annealing [with the goal to minimize the amount of torches used]).

I hope this thread doesn't diverge into "define intelligence!" discussions...
I mean, there surely are ways/games to train your performance in various intelligence tests, but I don't think that's what we're after here.

GeoGuessr is a good example of something that probably doesn't make you more "intelligent", but will surely make you more knowledgeable. This category will include a lot of learning games though. :P

Hm, sorry for rambling about so much... I guess I should include some games myself.
Ah, I found what I had in mind. I played this game like 5 years ago, but it immediately came to my mind when thinking about the topic:
http://www.zachtronics.com/the-codex-of-alchemical-engineering/
The "engineering" in the title is well deserved in my eyes :)

Bonus game: Try finding this game via google when all you remember is the gameplay and that it had the word alchemy in the name!
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10 years ago
Games with an easy API are a deathtrap into becoming smarter.

Last one i've bumped into was Flappy Space Program. It's a repetitive dumb clickfest of putting flappies into orbit...

I wrote a solver. I had to.
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10 years ago
EErankAdminAnarchid could you please clarify "deathtrap into becoming smarter"?
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10 years ago
USrankAutoWar you see: its not always wise to become smarter. It can make you a target in some eyes if you make it apperent that you have the wits as you are a threat to their dominancy.

I honestly think that most games will make you smarter in some way or another. All games develop certain skills even silly point clickers develop your reaction time. Imo its not like you have to look far away since Zero K is also a game that trains multitasking (as RTSs do in general) and makes you think out of the box (unusuall tactics etc.).

Imo Europa Universalis series is much better at making a web of certain variables that affect your play world than Democracy series does. Altrough Democracy makes it more visible that EU does wich also makes EU harder because you are not that 100% of what is coming in the future.
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10 years ago
quote:
could you please clarify "deathtrap into becoming smarter"?

A problem presents itself with a set of tools that allow its solution.
You are nerd-sniped.
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EU series reminds of one more category that best have it's own thread; Historical Reenactment! Lots of games for that thread. Still, beyond giving historical facts EU teaches geopoilitical fundamentals. I think? Good video anyway.

Same question for GeoGuesrrr; how do I describe how it makes the player smarter? Pattern recognition or something. Be aware of the little differences between each location you are at? Elolie is technicaly right; the learning curve hits knowledge pretty soon but GG is unique and fast simple enough for me to put it in the list.

Make your own fun kind of games don't count. So no APIs or "big simulation with no point" kind of stuff. Those are another thread and category like powdertoy and wireframe physics sims and that surgeon simulator. No wait, a category for simulations of jobs or history and another of sandbox style physics. Maybe EU goes here? Gamey games gotta have goals and accessability. Were not gonna be defining intelligence but "fun" in this thread.

Lets get specific. Why CS not API? CS is obviously way easier to start using and probably continue. Sure real programing is more fundamentaly rewarding but its also harder. CS is more bite sized too; letting the player play a 4x game and automate the sections of it that the player has solved or those that get tedious. Hows this different from programing problems? Just the strategy game it fits into I guess. I am not sure.

Like i said in the first post "Every planning challenge based game trains deductuion in some way." Maybe better restated as "all strategy games train problem solving."
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10 years ago
...that requires a pretty broad definition of "problem". If I think of SC II, it's basically "follow this buildorder as precisely as possible (or rather, better than your opponent follows his) and you win". There's some micro in there, but I would argue that microing doesn't make you more intelligent.
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10 years ago
Cosmic supremacy not starcraft2
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10 years ago
If you follow one build order in starcraft, you will have great success if you do it right, until you meet people who know how to scout and react, and then you will start losing. Starcraft is very micro heavy, but that does not mean it has no strategy behind it. After the initial build is done, its all reactionary from there on.
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quote:
If you follow one build order in starcraft, you will have great success if you do it right, until you meet people who know how to scout and react, and then you will start losing.

That's not exactly correct, everyone has their build which they follow, scouting is basic but knowing how to react to different enemy builds/tactics is just a part of mastering your build

I agree with elo, wouldn't call SC2 an intelligent game at all tbh, it doesnt take long to figure out how to play the game and then after that its mostly just about apm and remembering builds/timings, there's no room for intelligent thought during game while you're busy focusing on mashing the keys and juggling all the things you need to remember like supply/army groups / tech / creep / timings / scouting blablabla
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10 years ago
A Starcraft chauvinist might say the same of ZK. I'd not be comfortable calling either a "more intelligent" game than the other, they both have their strengths.
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quote:
it's basically "follow this buildorder as precisely as possible (or rather, better than your opponent follows his) and you win"
Might be true but even simple RTS have very big "decission trees."
Coming up with the best strategy/build order is a skill of its own.
However, the more newbie-guides, livestreamed games, tutorials etc there are, the less does that skill to invent matters. In starcraft everything is very planned out already.
How many new players would figure out on their own, how to wall-off?
It is superobvious standard play now, but in our LANs nobody did that until we had seen it on the internet.
So imo one reason why SC feels so "stupidly follow this builder precisely" is because others have already done the thinking.

---

What about classic puzzle-style games?
Or is that the kind of games you are explicitly not looking for?

http://www.nongnu.org/enigma/ - free remake of Oxyd
You control a black orb-thing and activate lasers, switch switches, blow up walls, push stuff etc. to complete the level.
Some levels are more about precisely controlling the ball, not falling into water etc. But most require thinking.
pictures: http://www.nongnu.org/enigma/screenshots.html

http://www.artsoft.org/rocksndiamonds - free remake of Boulderdash and Sokoban
Dig dirt, collect diamonds. Avoid digging in a way that rocks fall on head.
Some levelpacks change the game, and then it is about pushing boxes around.
(Another levelpack is something with a snake, did not play that)
pictures: http://www.artsoft.org/rocksndiamonds/screenshots.html

/edit:
hm thanks. picture worked for me, link to site now.
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Skasi
DErank[2up]knorke, ur first link fails.
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10 years ago
How did this thread get onto starcraft again? Anyway
Korke! Da problem is not that they are puzzle games, it's dat they are all about same old straight forward deduction. Every strategy game does that. If you don't lookup all the solutions anyway. Good point that.
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I have started playing cosmic supremacy. Looks interesting.

Join me in Galaxy 274 (after completing tutorial) and newbie sandbox 1.
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Skasi
10 years ago
Oooh it's that game. Name sounded familiar, but the "AI programming" part confused me. Played it before, but don't remember why I stopped, it either got dull or had too many issues.
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Any sufficiently complex game can involve thinking skills. When trying to maximize your effectiveness, you not only learn the game rules, but also how to use these rules to their fullest. It especially becomes fun when you end up with a strategy that wasn't really intended. Sometimes forcing specific penalties on yourselves can make it even more fun (as generally, playing game son high difficulty). As already mentioned, reading strategies on the Internet without even trying to come up with them on your own will spoil that part of the game for you. Like in puzzles, better to only do that when you find yourself stuck.
Some games I can think of that specifically made me do this are :
- Diablo 2 / LoD (with focus on exotic character builds)
- Dungeon Keeper 1 : Ancient Keeper mod :
http://keeper.lubiki.pl/html/dk1_maps_pdet.php?pack=ancient_keeper
- Endless Space (custom empires only)
- Alpha Centauri
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