I don't want to play any game with early pyros.

Venoms fails to jumping pyros ( http://zero-k.info/Forum/Thread/1887 )

Even the jump fac has no counter except moderator - which is expensive, too much single-targeted and not indirect.

Outlaw might work, but that is only 1 factory which is otherwise hardcountered until you got skuttleable Felons.
( Also slow makes 100 dps (against shields) while other skirmies in this cost/range only have 60 dps ).

Anyways, time has proven that the BEST way to get something nerfed is to abuse the hell out of it.

You think Pyros are OP? I'd better see you spamming pyros at the start of every game to prove it.

Sounds like you've found a super OP unit then!!!

Spam Pyros for the win! You can't lose!

Seriously.

They should damage other units according to cost*hitbox, not only hitbox

NeonStorm - it's not like they hard coded some gadget that makes it do damage * size. It just hits repeatedly as it passes through the unit. Every tick the flame is touching the unit, it's dealing damage. It's just that a larger hitbox means more time hitting the target.

Personally, I question whether noexplode weapons are worth the complexity they add in terms of screwing up shield gameplay and the fact that it's impossible to discuss their DPS because the DPS is so specific to the target.

Venoms cost abaut 300/400 metal - together with recluses.
480 metal in pyros counter a venom.

pyros are always in advantage

Pyros were over-nerfed, Neon. I dunno why you got problems with them. All riots counter them. Hell, even a single Glaive can beat a Pyro.

@Wolas, depends on how you handle the glaives. Remember that pyros are expensive and you can field a lot of glaives per-pyro. The problem is keeping the glaives from bunching up and losing many of them in the pyro's large gout of flame. And being in the right place, since the Pyros can jump to/from places Glaives can't reach.

Part of the Pyros is the same problem as the Jacks... and the Archangel... and the Scuttle... and the Freaker... in fact, pretty much the whole Spec/Jump lab other than the Sumo. None of the units look like they cost as much as they do. 10 pyros sure as heck doesn't look like 2000+ metal running around.

the problem is not that pyros are too cheap, or to strong, the problem is venoms low health.

If your units bunch up - much likely in every fac except vehicles, the pyros are strong.
Pyros got 3 times as much HP as a glaive, 2 pyros + 1 puppie:
* Venom stunns puppie (ground is closer than pyros with y-distance)
* 2 pyros jump to venom and kill it (maybe get hit twice)
* something about 3 seconds stunned, but can savely retreat.
* recluse wasted it's shots against puppies and can't kill pyros as fast as needed.

Venom+recluse is about the same metal as puppie+2pyros, but venom get killed.
Riots are slower, so pyro is allways the attacker (microed) while the venom player has to react at time.

Hell - 2 pyros can kill 1 warrior or 1 outlaw and retreat with jump.

They are riots by their own, but are called raider.
There would be no problem if they get buffed, but nerfed in velocity.

If they aren't raiders, rename their role in their description.

If it is not called raider, our great developers might balance them otherwise - other dps,hp,speed,...The current problem is that the real raider is puppy, and pyro is too suitable for both roles - riot+raider.

The jump ability and kbot movement beats vehicles and sometimes even bots.
Spiders aren't suitable enough.

That is why I hate them - allrounders which are semi-AT and not counterable without insane micro for repair, etc.

If Venoms were raiders they would at least have auto heal.
But I think the skirming widget got an update, that might change the behavior against jumping pyros.