Scythe needs nerf/rebalance

buff commanders?

no, the problem is that the cheap basic defenses are the wrong archetype to beat scythes (lotus), or have bad coverage (stardusts are easily obstructed and have short range).

I think if people make an early stinger besides the base lotus, then push with a decent mix of raiders, riots, etc. they should beat raiding based strategies that rely on scythes, pyros or tank raiders.

For expansion, make walls around the mexes to prevent them from being scythed.

the key is forcing the scythe user to engage your army.

defensive openings with a pair of riots for attacking can fail badly if they run into dominatrixes, though, but that's an issue with the dominatrix.

I think this also falls on the general ZK issue that agressive expansion+raiding right from the start is too effective compared to the other options. A way to work around this would be to increase base resource income, for example, from +4/+6 to +8/+12.


So yea, the "scythe" problem is something you can fix not by changing scythe, but by affecting the stuff that hard counters the scythe's counters too hard atm.

A big problem is the regen. Only a kill punishes the scythe player.

Build a stinger in your base hahahahahahahahahh

Wesley

quote: E upkeep 1 > 5 and its pretty much solved.

I seriously think this is a bit too much, i dont want to have more units getting a scuttle nerfhammer.
My suggestion would be 2E or max 3E upkeep which would still mean the "cost" increases from
-> 285m to 355m (instead of 425m which is pretty much insane)

2 Lotus will stop a Scythe for two thirds of its cost. They're also effective against nearly all other units. I'm unsure Scythe is actually OP.

Scythe is a very polarizing unit though. It has high weight, can only be engaged for 2-3 seconds after it attacked, and doesn't take any effective damage unless killed. Especially early on, this tends to snowball. I agree with raaar that ZK 1v1 is extremely susceptible to early game snowballing. Over time, as units have become more and more specialized, defenses have been nerfed and factory costs increased, this has only become worse. A bigger amount of starting resources or stronger defenses would certainly be a nice touch to keep the early game more balanced and allow games to progress further. ZK has so much more to offer than hectic raider play.

stinger

defenses can't move and attack, but they can hold the "fort" while a slow but strong(er than raiders) attack force moves and attacks.

I'd make those llt even if the enemy didn't have scythes. Porc op.

I didn't even realise Scythe had a cloak E cost. Shows how much I play cloak fac.

If you have a fac that can throw out cheap scouts they aren't quite so scary but you do have to play in paranoia mode for a long time when you're up against cloakbot (at least until you scatter some Faradays around to stun the whole pack when it shows itself). That'll certainly come at a cost in expansion.

Cloak is a massive perk that should be paid for though. 2E sounds reasonable and maybe slow down recloaking after an attack? Am I just imagining it from all the time spent chasing them futilely, or do they disappear faster than other cloak equipped stuff?

Well, there's the Outlaw. :P

Outlaw is kind of meh for revealing scythes, there is eraser + circle guard combo with say glaives
This has more radius and is cloaked itself...