can we just make jake a heavy transport to stop this stiped jack drop meda.
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yes we need jacks nerffed asap see the game below for how toxic they are https://zero-k.info/Battles/Detail/1183060
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That game didn't seem a whole lot more obnoxious than the Scallop drops that used to be popular.
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yeah but i would like to see a scallop rush ready in 20 secs from the start
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Two scallops and two transports costs about the same as a Jack and a transport. I admit the Jack is probably stronger, at least given the current iteration of Scallop. That being said, there are habits which became useful in the scallop drop meta (like not plopping alone on a small map) which seem like they would help against Jack drops as well.
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even if you drop together if there is not a stun like venom then your going to lose a com and there is none thing that you can really do about it
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Keeping your commanders close enough to support each other is kind of annoying, but you probably have a nonzero number of raiders/lotus as well. In a team game hopefully you have an air player who can see the drop coming, giving you time to bring your commanders together, and possibly even shoot down the transport on larger maps. Jack drop might be too strong but it does not seem outright uncounterable.
+3 / -0
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you have to stun or slow it to counter it so venom could work gnats work great but no one plays gunships because they suck or moderator to slow it. if you don't have any of those its a free com kill markivs got a jack up in 12 second because he got to coms but if 2 people are doing it then you lose a com because you dont know it and then after a com is ded have to counter it. if you make them heavy transports then you stop the early jack drop and the problem is solved.
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quote:
Jack drop might be too strong but it does not seem outright uncounterable. |
Well, the threads title:
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Morph guardian comm to level three with dual melters. You will be safe from jacks! ... of course you will have no eco or expand or units, but that's a small price to pay for peace of mind.
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I got banged couple games by jackdrops now and tried it out myself, hell one game I was seriously distracted on the phone while jackdropping and still killed 2 bases, other game was also easily won. I'm not going to say its uncounterable or its a 100% victory just cuz ur dropping jacks.... but it seems like a way too strong tactic. With jackdrops you'll have to either fuck up extremely hard to not wreck some ass - or enemy team needs to have a player who is 24/7 watching the whole map for jackdrops and getting ready to counter. I'm pretty sure the core problem is the 1000 m+: heavy transport and anything below 1000m: light transport rule. Jack itself seems ok. Perhaps instead of changing the transport rules, Jack should be turned into a 1000 metal unit? Of course with upgraded stats.
+2 / -0
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The problem is Charon. For long I have thought that it is sleeper OP and now the OPness is increasingly uncovered, obscured only by the high micro requirement. Undoing the speed disadvantage of an expensive unit for only 100 M is OP, not only for Jack. I think the solution is to reduce Charon speed depending on the transported unit's speed.
+3 / -0
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I dunno, I suspect the community will eventually learn how to counter this tactic. The reason transports are never used conventionally is because they have stupidly high speed and stupidly low HP (and Swift is a unit that exists.) Therefore transports are doomed to be good only for trolling. Now I probably will regret sharing this, but if you want a real OP BS strategy with transports, try Charon+Lance.
+2 / -0
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Like Lotus in the base it's mandatory to have some basic AA in the hinterland. Maybe not like the lotus directly in the base, also it's not bad to have it. But the area between front and base needs it without any holes. It's not that difficult or expensive! I often don't see that such basic AA. So basic Jack drop via airlift not possible with that. Newton canons are for sure different, but even here there are counters. And most players cannot use them any ways. Like for lance and some other stuff, which is recently under discussion i don't get the point. There is always a counter. Maybe impaler spam and 3-5 merlins are really bad to counter, if properly protected. But in most cases just the window to counter properly is not used. IMO the game is extremly balanced. Knowledge (of units & strategies) & skill are imbalanced. This cannot be corrected.
+3 / -0
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I have a feeling that if you have Swappan or Jummy or Sab or Zini as air that you are safe from jack drops. Swift swarms shoot those critters down fast. On the other hand if you have Raptor air that sits over the air guy's base, you may as well resign.
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It's almost like this conversation is happening for the third time, and the solutions to Jack have long been found, discussed and well documented. https://zero-k.info/Forum/Thread/34020https://zero-k.info/Forum/Thread/33755quote:
...a player who is 24/7 watching for jackdrops and getting ready to counter... |
And why shouldn't it require that? It's the same thing as a year ago with Scythes: having every player counter the thing independently across the map only plays into the enemies hands, - as with any successful similar strategy which gained momentum. Surely it takes up most of the resources and attention they confer to the game, it's only fair you do the same.
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No air - gg Lob air - gg Ravens got a nerf a while ago to make air less mandatory in teams. I am not sure that a reliance on air to counter anything is a desired(!) design-goal.
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It seems a little too good and transporting heavier things at full speeds doesn't make that much sense. Here is a small nerf. https://github.com/ZeroK-RTS/Zero-K/commit/c4d9a3dc9b6451156b7ba81e407122a188a42f28Added medium transport weight. Weights are now.
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[0, 500] = Light
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(500, 1000] = Medium (ie Jack, Skuttle, Felon, Phantom, Minotaur, Emissary, Lance, Impaler, Siren, Envoy, Aspis, Iris, Djinn)
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(1000, inf) = Heavy
Transport speeds are.
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Charon transports Light/Medium at 70%/50% speed.
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Hercules transports Light/Medium/Heavy at 75%/65%/50% speed.
The heavy/light speeds were not changed.
+8 / -0
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http://zero-k.info/Battles/Detail/1256570 jack drops are still way to good early game.,
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