Manners

As harsh as it is, taking a libertarian policy will turn Zero-K into the kind of cesspool the Dotalikes game are famous for - we have all the same forces present that will encourage players to hate the newbies. Being strict about unsportsmanlike behavior is going to be unforunately necessary.

fix?

Yes, this community seems to be very poisonous at times. This is sad and is most likely related to the internet effect: once a person of certain type (in this text, the word "jerk" is used) realizes they are safely away from the people they interact with, they can can shout all kinds of obscenities freely.

Sadly, high jerk content in a community is usually an effective way to drive Nice People away. Thus, it would be great if the jerks in this community would develop some basic human interaction skills. However, some of them are not capable or willing to do that.

So it all boils down to control and how to enforce this? How to punish poor manners? Where to draw the line rude behavior? How to deal with individual cases fairly?

This would require creation of straightforward rules of ingame/chat lobby conduct. Make the rules visible, they should be the first thing the player sees when joining a chat room. If the rules are broken, it is kick or ban. I've seen it on many internet multiplayer servers: swearing, racism, sexual pejoratives, obscene language, N00bing, yelling team for defeat, etc will get you kicked.

So why not? Create rules, have the admins read that. If someone breaks the rules, kick time. Repeated misconduct is ban for a set time period mentioned in the rules.

The benefit of teaching jerks some manners are:
1) more pleasant community
2) more players
3) more Nice People
4) more fun (except for the jerks)
5) maybe even the jerks learn some respect and basics of human conduct?

Make the rules detailed enough that once someone breaks them, it is fair and straightforward to routinely apply the punishment.

Here is a ruleset that could be used as a starting point, obtained from here:
http://www.tacticalgamer.com/team-fortress-2-rules-announcements/99267-team-fortress-2-server-rules.html

*Start copy-paste*

Server Rules

Anyone who violates any of the following rules is subject to a kick or ban without warning. Warnings will typically be issued, but discretion in dealing punishments is left to the enforcing administrator.

Conduct
Players are expected to keep their language clean and treat fellow players with respect at all times. Use of discriminatory slurs will not be tolerated and will result in punishment without warning. This includes, but is not limited to, slurs based on gender, race, ethnicity, or sexual preference.

Insulting teammates or other players for any reason will also not be tolerated. No matter how poorly a player is performing, you will not berate them. Inform an admin of any players not working with his/her team.

Teamwork
Players are expected to actively work toward achieving the objective with their team. Those who continually disregard the interest of their team and the objective will be subject to removal from the server.

*End copy-paste*

People get angry thats part of the human and thats normal you cant kick or ban such people, but those who are plain annoying and constantly raging without any reason for example Smoke Fumus he is annoying but thanks god not active in zk or just picking on others ( do we have such people now? ) should be constantly kicked, but not banned just to show others that we dont tolerate such behaviour, more if its is possible springie after kick shouldnt allow to rejoin for this person for ~5 mins - 1h, or best starting with 1 min doubling this time to infinity just to let him calm down and think, because usually after kicking people become mad and then do really ugly things.

First of all: Sotha's post makes me wanna get mad. Very mad. Very very very mad.

I don't know a single game with anywhere near as many nice players as ZK and I've played many many many. I am sure that this is a result of the deep respect for each other not only between players, but also between moderators and players. Maybe it's the fact that many people who are into ZK understand that most beings tend to overreact - including themselves - and manage to take that easy.

Some people don't, that's usually those who initiate kick-votes, ask for bans and attack others in public by putting them in bad light via forum threads titled "Ban ..." or "... needs a ban" instead of trying to calm down and then have a friendly talk with whoever managed to upset them.

This is probably the biggest problem in our community: People are afraid. It all starts with new players being afraid of enemies steamrolling them and being afraid of chatting, thinking others would immediately start to kick them if they said something wrong. I'm sure anyone of you has seen these two things before. Next there's usually fear of looking weak when reacting friendly to insults (and I mean friendly, not ignorant or contemptuous) or when trying to talk with others instead of shouting at them when there's something that bothers them.

I don't understand why so many people are too blind to see that punishment is bad manners. Please enlighten me, Sotha.

Dear Skasi,

I am sorry if my post made you want to get angry. It was not my intent. Your propensity to lose your temper, to be honest, was indeed a surprise to me. My intent here is to altruistically attempt to help the community.

For me this community is somewhat okay, but the culture of insulting and trolling was quite a surprise for me when I joined. Apparently my standards for a 'good' community are too high, I suppose, since people here seem to feel that resentful and insulting behavior towards your fellow players is normal behavior.

I find it appalling. My first impression of the dark side of this community got me thinking that what kind of kindergarten is this. Subsequently I realized that no kindergarten wardens would allow that kind of behavior.

You ask me how I do not see punishment as bad manners. I see it the other way around: punishment is the way of correcting bad manners.

Think back to your childhood. Kids tried their limits. Their parents set the limits. The limit setting is enforced by punishments. This is mandatory. If no understandable punishment system is in effect, the kids can do anything they please. The parents have no control. Subsequently the upbringing of the uncontrolled kid fails and they become Nasty People: out of control, insecure, ill-mannered... The very stuff of your standard issue Internet Troll is made of.

Same thing is in the human society in general: people are gently controlled by a set of rules. If everyone followed them, the world would be a more sensible place. Not necessarily better, but certainly more sensible. Those rules are enforced, again by a consistent set of punishments.

This community has no consistent rules. Your trolls and jerks run rampant. What will you lose if you set up a simple set of rules and punishments to control the Ill-Mannered? Nothing will change, except the Ill-Mannered are gently guided towards a more pleasant, meaningful and fulfilling existence.

Of course, we all lose our temper sometimes. You might be afraid what will happen to you if you accidentally break the rules yourself. Then you will receive the punishment. After being kicked from the server you contemplate the matter and learn from your mistakes to control ourself better next time. The overall community experience will eventually shift towards more polite and civilized direction. A more friendly community certainly would do no harm, don't you think?

I hope this humble approach can provide some illumination to the questions you asked.

Feel free to ask more if something was left in the dark.

Yours truly,
Sotha

You punish players by not rewarding them. So what is the difference?

On-topic
I agree that a more strict policy would be usefull
Even if it does not contain immediatly punishment. Like when it is allowed to votekick someone for example. Now votekicks turn up at almost random when someone is mad about something.

agree pvp servers are not newbie friendly so it shouldnt say 'newbie friendly' because all they are gonna find there is insults, getting steamrolled etc.

I think it is because that the majority of the Zero-K games are team games, just like in the DOTA.
People have a tendency to blame their teammate in this kind of games.
If we promote more 1v1, players might be more polite to each other.