Placeholder needs a nerf

Commander can still terraform or jump to get out, and can still shoot.

Frankly, I am not terribly sympathetic to the frontline commander that cannot handle a cloaked placeholder when it comes up, the enemy just as easily could have stunned them into oblivion.

I somehow lost my morphed commander to a single placeholder, it wasn't a pleasant experience

I've played 1 or 2 teamgames where i was using very limited amount of placeholder, and, well, it's not just commanders. You try to assault something with minotaurs or cyclops, and a placeholder is near? You've made a nice metal donation, and no you can't change your mind and retreat.

Virgin Widow:
- Relies on cloak to function, drains 10 e/s
- Needs to walk up point blank to enemy, can be screened
- Dies instantly when decloaked
- Need multiple to stun even half-striders like Jugglenaut or Cyclops
- Can only stun one target at once
- Reload takes forever, can't stunlock
- Can't do anything cool

Chad Placeholder
- Brazenly operates in the open, has nothing to fear
- Has skirmisher range, good luck screening that
- Can survive more than 1s in combat
- Can immobilize whole armies with its massive aoe
- Only needs 1 shot to immobilize most heavies
- Reload time is equal to effect duration, can keep a single target locked forever
- Combine with lobster to build space elevators, cool

Missile launcher strike comm can kill it I think.

I like having options when there is a heavy unit that makes a more complex game. We have line move (so, no need to always group), the blackhole does not do any damage, and placeholder does not seem to synergize well with many things from factory (a bit with moderator, but they reload so slow, than if you see that you can spam cheap units and line move them, and done). Plus, when I tried to use it I found that the effect is not as predictable as you may want (hard to get exactly what you want).

quote: - Can't do anything cool

Can stun antinuke. Very cool thing btw if u have nuke silo with nuke.
Widov can sneak in enemy base and allow see thing because it invisible.
Placeholder disable unit movment but not it firepower. Widov stop unit fully until stun duration.
Enemy can see placeholder in radar if no cloaker present but widov have its own cloak.

Placeholder has always seems like it could be extremely powerful, but for some reason we don't see much of it. I'd want to build up some understanding of when it is good.

Biggest lame about placeholder is that you can't jump out of that hole.
However this unit is rarely used no matter that it is very powerful support attack. Its very had to use placeholder effectively and one or two games doesn't mean that its ultimate counter.
Of course form one side its lame that somebody got his detri trapped because detri doctrine says that you must send it with adequate support not just alone jumping around with some flea screen. I have seen one game where detri was supported by gunshit fleet (nimbus + tridents) + flea screen. Nobody could deal with that combo. In reality you needed more metal then in detri + gunships to deal with such combination.

quote: P.S. I tried to start a serious discussion here and people turned it into a circus :\

Well detri is already jumping circus. Something doesn't fit together with 'jumping' and 'ultimate assault strider'. I don't also understand why devs put such buffs only now if i proposed (and not only me but many others) things like 100 regen long time ago and that it should take take less dmg form ultis. But now they giving buffs like from unicorn horn. I'm proponent about detri more robust and stronger but opponent about jumping. It becoming Doom Eternal with Marauder in game. We already got lobster for trolling but now jumping detris. What will be next? Jumping/flying ultis? At first this all is of course funny but when some time pass it start to become annoying. So seems if detri is getting his jump permanently then it should be also in similar troll mode be countered by placeholder.

quote: Of course form one side its lame that somebody got his detri trapped because detri doctrine says that you must send it with adequate support not just alone jumping around with some flea screen

this here. Adequate support for detriment(something apart from flea screen and some aa and what allies happen to have) already means well over 30k metal spent... DRP is just better in all regards if u wanna really strong support for detriment
and here u get to the question what role detriment supposed to act in a team game? what does it solve better than DRP?
if it does come earlier it quickly turns into a metal donation
if you make proper screening and support it comes right in time to get killed by DRP...

but anyway let's continue on detriment here https://zero-k.info/Forum/Thread/32425