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Separate 1v1, Teams and FFA ranks

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My primary concern here is how FFA affects rank. If I understood correctly, only the winner gains rank progress in FFA games. Everyone else loses rank progress. In an ideally balanced teams or 1v1 game, chances of winning are 50%, so in the long term you would at least keep your rank. In an ideally balanced FFA game, assuming at least 3 players, it would be 33% at max. In reality it's even less as you usually have 4-6 players. So unless you are a really good FFA player, you can only lose rank in the long term when playing FFA games.

Another obvious reason is that players doing well in FFA might be doing bad in teams or 1v1 games in general. Same applies vice versa, a good teams player might do bad in FFA or 1v1. Or a good teams player doing bad in 1v1. Etc. This is why I think that Zero-K needs separate ranks based on game types.

I am also aware that this would result in a even more complicated ranking system. Open questions are how casual vs competitive would be handled and what rank would be displayed. In my opinion, the displayed rank would ideally be based on room type. Custom or bot/chicken rooms do not have to care about rank anyway.
+3 / -0
I disagree with your analysis but am in favour of a simpler solution, which is just to make FFA not count towards rank.
+3 / -0
3 years ago
Didn't we had that topic a few times already?

Last time FFA-ranking was removed from the casual ranking if i am correct.
Why is it back?
+0 / -0
3 years ago
https://zero-k.info/Forum/Thread/31944 here is a good reference
+0 / -0

3 years ago
There is so much wrong with this. As a general rule, you will never lose rank unless you win less than your win chance. So you can lose a hundred FFAs with 1% win chance and only win one and your rating will remain constant.

Big Teams is by far the least predictable game mode, so if we remove one mode from rating why not start there.. FFA and 1v1 give a better representation of your team skill than team games. Simply because team games are so random and unpredictable. It's not even possible to have a meaningful teams ladder because of this. The casual ladder will always be decided by games that have more information.

On a more serious note I'd rather hide casual rating entirely (only use in background for balance). Having two separate ladders leads to all kinds of problems, for example the fact that casual games decide your rank and not competitive ones.
+2 / -0

3 years ago
My only problem with FFA affecting rank is that sometimes there's an agreement between some of the players beyond the game situation. I've been gang banged before in FFA and my chance to win was zero.
+2 / -0
quote:
for example the fact that casual games decide your rank and not competitive ones.

Seems like I'm more likely to hit Subgiant from casual before competitive (looking at the percentiles, and my % rank progress not budging with MM wins), and I've only played like 5 public casual games. Definitely cheapens things in my eyes.

EDIT: yep, there it goes.
+3 / -0


3 years ago
quote:
I've been gang banged before in FFA and my chance to win was zero.


Yep. Been there too mate.

The more serious we make the FFA ladder, the more seriously people will get into that kind of crap. Not a good outcome.
+0 / -0