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Unit icons are a mess

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Tanks



This is quickly fixable. Tell me, cyclops is a skirmisher? I definitely don't think so. Cyclops's role is close to felon's and crab's, so it should be tank support, like this:



Spiders



Venom is a "special riot"? I suppose it takes on the raider role after its change in actual/stun damage ratio. Its speed is also in the raider category. It makes more sense to be



Amph



Ummm ok, you have two back icons based on attack types if I understand it correctly. But even so, duck and archer should be made more distinct from each other.



I kinda understand why lobster is an "artillery" but it really isn't.

Gunships



What's the difference between them from the appearances???

Imo nimbus should use the support icon as it's more of a support, but the most important reason is that it has to stop to fire.



As hercules is an armed transport, it could use another icon superposed on it. By doing this we can get rid of one of the two base icons for gunships since every unit in the factory is given a different role.

Air



Why do you need that when you can use a plane icon superposed by the AA icon?




I think phoenix works more like a riot than a raider. Meanwhile, thunderbird works like a special stunner.



Dumbest icon of all. Can't comment.

Striders



This icon is yet to capture the characteristics of scorpion, specifically its stunning capability to, for example, kill a dante with little damage taken. I suppose it should be


+3 / -1
3 months ago
AUrankAdminAquanim say something?
+0 / -0
I dislike most of these suggestions (and I dislike the attitude with which they have been presented). Originally put a downvote on the OP but it may as well be a counterargument I suppose.

In general I think it is not worth making people memorize new icons unless there is a clear necessity for it. The Dagger/Bolas change still confuses me sometimes.

--

Cyclops: I would describe the thing which unifies the fire-support units as "is like a skirmisher but less self-sufficient, particularly considering the case where it needs to move". Cyclops doesn't really fit that criteria. Skirmisher isn't the best category for it either, but I would prefer to see it given a unique super-heavy-assault icon rather than fire support.
[Spoiler]

Venom: Is sort of a dedicated anti-raider like Bolas and Archer, but gets used even less in classic raider roles than either of those two units. If it had the raider icon already I would not change it to riot, but I don't think it needs to be changed to raider either. Calling even the current state of Venom a "special riot" is not misleading.

Amph: The icon shapes are nominally based on whether the unit surfaces to fire or not. Scallop's icon is outdated and possibly should be fixed. I have never had much difficulty telling Duck and Archer apart, though. Duck could move to a scout icon if it really needs to I guess.

I think Lobster looks better as it is than it would with a star or transport symbol (both of which are taken by Limpet and Djinn anyway). Maybe it could have something unique (perhaps an arrow pointing diagonally upwards by analogy with Newton?).

Gunships: I think the two different base icons to represent light/heavy gunships is fine.

Planes: Fighters have a very different role to bombers, and both are important to keep track of, so I think it is desirable for fighters to have a unique icon design. I think Phoenix and Thunderbird icons are close enough to accurate to not be worth messing with. I also can't comment on the zero reason provided for disliking Sparrow.

Scorpion: All of the strider units are "special" in some way or another. I think there's a case for distinguishing the icons of Scorpion and Paladin, but putting a star on Scorpion just moves it closer to Funnelweb. Maybe Funnelweb should change to account for its new role I guess.
+0 / -0
3 months ago
If you asked me what which icon represents, I couldn't answer a single one except the ones that actually represent the unit shape.

In my view the scout plane and air superiority fighter has the best icon since I can tell immediately what specific unit it is, without consulting some spreadsheet. I have to zoom in on most units to understand what the drawing is trying to tell if I lack other context. I know more from icon speed, icon movement pattern, weapon effects surrounding the icon and positioning. I think more icons should represent simple unit shapes.

This is not some military simulator where you can have a hundred variants for a role, there's a finite and relatively small number of units so there's no reason to generalize them into obscure geometrical shapes.
+0 / -0
3 months ago
quote:
attitude

I don't have any other attitude than presenting my POVs and proposing solutions. This thread isn't a complaint towards the moderation team so you could save that sort of interpretation.

quote:
In general I think it is not worth making people memorize new icons unless there is a clear necessity for it. The Dagger/Bolas change still confuses me sometimes.

Imo the dagger/bolas change is very positive in the long run. It might be confusing if you dropped the game for months and returned. Yet meanwhile, a decent player who plays the game on a regular basis and who thinks about the game should be able to adapt to the change in days as long as it makes more cognitive sense.

quote:
Cyclops

Perhaps tank + assault + support or skirmisher would best fit a unique superheavy icon, as



or



quote:
Venom

Afaik all "dedicated antiraiders" use the raider icon. Also pyro besides the mentioned units. Another reason for the raider icon is that spider factory has absolutely no units using it.

quote:
Amph

These are for sure more complex issues than the above, as an immediate solution may not be clearly available. Iirc scallops also surface to fight sometimes (I'm not 100% sure about scallop's mechanics).

quote:
Gunships

It's still good to have distinct roles assigned to each unit in the factory, even if the base icon is to be preserved.

quote:
fighters and bombers
quote:
phoenix and thunderbird

Fair enough.

quote:
Sparrow

If it's not obvious to you then whatever.

quote:
Striders

Strider + upright cross may be another candidate for scorpion. The upright cross is used for cloaked units such as scythe, phantom, and widow.

Special icon indeed doesn't fit funnelweb as it neither stuns nor bombs. Strider + con + shield may be the way to go, tho it's a different type than the normal shields.
+1 / -0
3 months ago
I think the paladin icon should be changed from Strider base + Diamond, to Strider base, + lance/Lucifer icon

Paladin is not an assault unit, and it uses a tachyon beam like the lance and lucifer. I think that this change in the icon would better suit its role.
+0 / -0

3 months ago
To be clear, I agree that there was a necessity for the Bolas change. The point is that any changes, even necessary ones, cause confusion.
+0 / -0

3 months ago
while we are at it, could we make another unit renaming round? at the smae time.
+0 / -0



3 months ago
I agree with about half the OP, but I am wary about causing confusion for existing players, and in some cases by making icons closer to each other. The icons are a product of what units existed at the time and how they worked. Whether a combination of role and chassis icon looks bad/unreadable is also a consideration.
  • Cyclops outranges many skirmishers, but more importantly, it stands out since nothing else in the factory has the skirmisher icon. Putting an assault icon behind it would cause it to share a feature with Minotaur (which seems bad for distinguishing them in clumps).
  • Venom would might get a straight raider icon if it was added today. Redback was added after the icon system was designed and Venom has slowly become more of a standard raider (and other raiders have been added which are less standard). The star icon used to mean EMP but now often means bomb or something really weird. That said, Venom is below raider speed (90 elmos/s) and is particularly good against raiders.
  • I don't have trouble with Archer and Duck. Archer is far below raider speed though, so if the icons were being redesigned I'd want to add an icon for units that fall between raider and riot. Venom would have this icon too.
  • Lobster is arguably not artillery, but the icon fits because it has no conflict within the factory, looks a bit like lobbing, and the lines are pleasingly parallel with the edge of the amph chassis.
  • Gunships are weird, but I don't think people have trouble telling them apart. Air in general requires some creative interpretations of icons. Remember that these icons are not the same size ingame. Phantom and Scythe actually have the same icon, but their sizes differ enough for this to be mostly ok.
  • Sparrow had that icon ages ago and the icon still existed when I put it back into the game. It's not great, but we don't have a better one. Non-bomber planes have their own shapes.
  • Striders don't have more distinct icons because they tend to not need them, and because striders tend to be added for fun long before anyone knows their role. Even when a strider is balanced its role can be hard to pin down, much harder than a light unit. The strider chassis already has something that looks like assault on it. Adding something to Paladin or Scorpion would probably be fine. I can't think of anything that would work well though.

Lance has a unique role icon. This was part of its icon prior to the icon redesign and it served as the inspiration for the support icon. The support icon was initially just for Fencer.
+1 / -0
3 months ago
Thanks for adding the intriguing history of icon design. That said, I hold that tank + assault + support is a great icon for cyclops -- the superposed two roles is a vivid depiction of it as a moving castle with a turret, and represent the dual weapons it wields...
+0 / -0