So in a previous thread, I ranted about how Action at a Distance (teleportation) was bad in Zero-K. The Djinn was the primary target of my ire because of it's nature. But now I have an idea to make the Djinn better and cooler. It is... The unit transport beam The basic idea here is that rather than warping units around, the djinn now moves things through space, like a really focused, 2-part Newton. The Djinn establishes a beam contact with it's beacon (it has to be line-of-sight, no moving through mountains. That's the point, terrain is something that should always matter), and units who go into the beacon get dragged by a gravity beam from the beacon to the djinn. Units can still be shot while being transported, so you have to be careful not to beam through enemy porc. Likewise you can send from djinn to beacon, for quick retreats. Also the Djinn should be made much more mobile, so it can move places quickly and then gravity-beam in an army from your base. waddaya think?
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Nice idea, it could make djinn used more.
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I understand that you hate teleportation, but this idea will make sneak penetrations into enemy bases impossible, since you are likely to notice stuff been flung over you. And if you use grevity beams, then the sound will alert the whole map thet you are using the djinn and ruin the whole purpose of the djinn.
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Fly Skuttles over their base and jump them down while they pass. Sounds good, we need a substitute for Newton unit cannons.
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Scuttles no longer have ability to jump midair. Same for Sumo.
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the question, what would you use the djin for? curent uses for the djin: glorified valkyre to bring units to front faster retreat point system sneak attaks (extremly poor cost efficiency) new uses: ????? i really cant come up with any
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transport skuttles over enemy base and self-destruct when over their base.
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As stated above I would break the beam at the moment my Skuttle is just above that com. At least, I'm imagining this to be like a kind of arc which throws you over enemy lines.
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The proposed variant is with 2 gravity "push" beams at the sending and reciving ends. Both will shoot the unit to each other by accelerating it, and both will later slow it down to keep it from dying. if you turn off the beam while in use, then the unit will keep it's momentom until the ground helps with that problem, usually with pain and, sometimes, death.
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So... how would this make the Djinn better?
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my point being, it would not...
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Personally I think this is a good idea, or at least on the right track. 1. It makes use of a known mechanic instead of inventing a new one, 2. Avoids the action-at-a-distance problem (which I agree with), 3. Better realism (surely the battle for the universe would've devolved into swarms of cloaked teleporters attempting to infiltrate planets/bases to insert nukes by now, as a far more effective option than actually fighting) It would also be cool if you could chain Djinns to create a longer / more complex path. I've yet to see Djinns used in battle, but then, it's not often I see transports used with ferry routes. But I think that Djinns could allow, for example, a well organised team to quickly get forces to defence points across a wide battle front. You can do this with air transports I guess, but it requires micro, which is lame. Keep the air transports and cloakies for trying to get behind enemy lines, and Djinn as more of a behind the lines unit, potentially to help push the front forward quickly or unexpectedly.
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quote:
1. It makes use of a known mechanic instead of inventing a new one |
Balance considerations are more important here, and gravgun mechanic would only nerf an already underused unit. quote:
2. Avoids the action-at-a-distance problem (which I agree with), |
The metal is still instantly teleported to where ever it is needed. Which is a MUCH worse AaaD issue that you keep arbitrarily ignoring. quote:
surely the battle for the universe would've devolved into swarms of cloaked teleporters attempting to infiltrate planets/bases to insert nukes by now, as a far more effective option than actually fighting |
Fluff considerations are completely irrelevant here. otherwise you should consider: - why are wars fought with schizotech? These are interstellar conflicts with civilizations that can create battle robots on the spot within seconds. Surely, they could just build planetbusting ships or such, rather? This is a whole level off the Kardashev scale. - what do you mean, not sneaking teleport nukes? all zk battles start with a commander being teleported in. And then the commander teleports a factory, too. And then they start replicating, consuming surrounding matter for even new factories and bots. You could consider this a nanobot bombing :P Now here's a thought: if djinn transports units by making them fly in an arc, shouldn't AA be able to target those units, as they are flying and all?
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Honestly, this whole "action at a distance" thesis is something I disagree with. I see nothing wrong with action-at-a-distance. I can see the fact that teleporters and cap-cars have create an odd inter-unit relationship that's uncharacteristic of Zero-K. I can see the point there. But the whole "distance" metric is strange. It seems like creating an arbitrary rule for its own sake. Now, the Djinn has problems - it was designed as a ferry-route unit but it's overpriced and cumbersome compared to the more versatile flying transports. Its only real advantage over them is stealth (and not drawing screamer/chainsaw fire), but there you're already paying a high cost for a cloakgen.
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> The proposed variant is with 2 gravity "push" beams at the sending and reciving ends. Both will shoot the unit to each other by accelerating it, and both will later slow it down to keep it from dying. if you turn off the beam while in use, then the unit will keep it's momentom until the ground helps with that problem, usually with pain and, sometimes, death. I like this more than a beam, actually. And some people say that it makes the Djinn weaker. It would, but I would compensate by making it move MUCH faster, and be a bit cheaper. If it was a speedy unit it could get into position quickly and then you could loft in your army.
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> 3. Better realism (surely the battle for the universe would've devolved into swarms of cloaked teleporters attempting to infiltrate planets/bases to insert nukes by now, as a far more effective option than actually fighting) This is also part of the reason why I don't like the djinn.
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the problem is coding that takes effort, but it dose not improve the unit, nor dose it make it more user friendly, or less AaaD teleporty (just gives it a new teleport animation(when you come down to basics)) what it dose do is maki it way more fiddly, and alot more usless, noone wants to spend time fiddling around so much...
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...especially when proponents of idea are too lazy to implement it, and just ignore opposing arguments wholesale, too.
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also teleportation actualy exists irl... so its not really even a simulationist argument
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Real games are boring because they are real. If you seek for realism, then try spring 1944 (same engine, but no sci-fi stuff to get you upset). Teleportation is cool. Gravity guns are cool. nano-based building is cool. All terrain robots are cool. Amphibios robots ar cool. Plasma weponry is cool. I think most of us play ZK because it has such cool stuff (and exploding robots, which is always cool). Removing cool stuff will make the game more belivable (since it will have things that we are used to), but not more fun. If anything, there should be a thread to propose new crazy ideas (with the probabilaty to implement them as well), rather then dumming down brillient ideas (As a programmer, I understand how painfull it will be if an idea you thought good gets voted off regardless of the sweat and blood transferred into code) Phisics is just a medium to show the world, but not to contain it (apart form the real world, but that is not a game). The game world is contaned in math, or, rather a code version of math and has little to do with reality (like we can set the gravity to whatever we want on a map, even if weird stuff will happen if it were real life, or we can have a negative cratermult, witch is also fun to look at)
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