Loading...
  OR  Zero-K Name:    Password:   

What is an ideal match to you?

16 posts, 440 views
Post comment
Filter:    Player:  
sort
3 months ago
Say, if everyone played perfectly?
+0 / -0
3 months ago
Multiplayer B1660004 10 on Highway 95 v5
+1 / -0


3 months ago
Perfect play is a game-theoretic concept which entails actually "solving" the game; something hopefully quite far away for ZK since it's not much fun to play solved games.

So here's instead something i'd consider the most fun game: a serious 1v1 between two top10 players that lasts more than an hour, and features as many different factories and units as possible - preferably all of the factories, and at least one superweapon of at least nuke level.
+4 / -0
3 months ago
128 players VS 128 AI's split into 8 teams, with each team being 50% AI, so 32 players total per team.

A large map 100 x 100 with hills, sea, islands.

A long 8 hour game, with some teams surviving super weapon attacks and going on to eventually win after weak points in other teams defences are exploited.
+3 / -2
quote:
128 players VS 128 AI's split into 8 teams, with each team being 50% AI, so 32 players total per team.

A large map 100 x 100 with hills, sea, islands.

A long 8 hour game, with some teams surviving super weapon attacks and going on to eventually win after weak points in other teams defences are exploited.


Translation: I want a game where half of the people lag out or quit in the first two hours, and to deal with constant AFK notifications, half of my metal going to defender/llt spam while committing to a stale match and letting my body suffer horrible health effects!

Serious points to consider:
- RTS is extremely harsh on the mind. There's a reason why large scale MMORTS games are typically web browser type games. The more decisions and active the player is and the longer the game run time is, the more mental fatigue will set in. This is typically why most hour plus games feel taxing to some people.
- Any person who drops out around the two hour mark is just not coming back period. Simming that long of a game is just going to take a very long time.
- Having half of your economy lost to AI is going to be a frustrating experience, not to mention you'd have to distribute AIs in a way that if any one player drops in a team, you would have back up hosts for the other ais. A single point of failure for the AIs in a team would just result in units sitting around if the AI host drops.
- The longer a game run time is, the more human limits you're going to run up against, which means more people will be going AFK at random and this can be frustrating.
- At 8 hours, you'd be mostly limited to 3-4 timezone differences total without running up against sleep.
- You'd need frequent breaks to allow 15 minute stretches/walks.
- The game would probably get pretty unplayable before the 4 hour mark with the number of players and AI spamming stuff out.
- Team FFAs are one of the most frustrating experiences in ZK, period.
- Zero-K's game design is more than likely not compatible with this.
- Coordinating 128 people to play this is going to be an organizational hell.
+7 / -0
3 months ago
quote:
128 players VS 128 AI's split into 8 teams, with each team being 50% AI, so 32 players total per team.
Can't imagine that being enjoyable, even assuming perfect performance, because I think a winner will be decided more by diplomacy than because of anything else.

Ideal game for me: a game in which I see a crazy new strategy (bonus points it's something I would like to adopt) and in which I understand what is my impact and what I did good (for what I did wrong I always need to watch replay anyhow :-p). Preferable without the highest possible APM and constant stress (like some 1v1 end up).
+1 / -0
The more the merrier.
Less E-Sport more Casual.
( unknownrankShaman System limitations are the Develobs fault, tryhards deserve to be tired out. Ex.8-12 hours HOI4 MP games or Stellaris.)
A long game that isn't pointless.

Sadly the following 3 states show up too often:
- One side simply gives the other one a beating, match over in less than 30 min.

- Bouth Teams become "inactive" once a no-mans-land is established on the front.

- Games past the point of no return.
+1 / -1
3 months ago
Generally 3v3 to 5v5 games are my favorite.
+3 / -0
System limitations are not developers' fault when you attempt to do things outside of what we've designed them to work in and what we've guaranteed them to work in. You don't get to blame/sue the engineers for your car not working in space, it was never designed to work in space. Thinking you can scale up a traditional RTS that already struggles in 16v16 up to borderline MMO levels is absolutely absurd and not anyone's fault but the people trying to scale it up to MMO sizes should it not work.

What you're essentially trying to do is blame the developers for Mario Kart 8 not working when you modded it to throw 300 players on a single track. That game was never designed for an MMO experience and to blame the developers/designers for it not working in those conditions is completely unreasonable. Zero-K is the same way; sure we COULD potentially have up to 252 players in a match as that is Spring's limit but it does not mean that the game should be expected to function let alone be playable at that scale nor should we be expected to maintain it at that scale.

HOI/Stellaris are not on the same scale as ZK and the comparison isn't very applicable. HOI and Stellaris are grand level strategy games where you move army groups around and don't micromanage individual soldiers/ships in a battle against other soldiers/ships being micromanaged. There are significantly less decisions being made in these games in any given time span compared to ZK. Generally you're not deciding where each individual ship should go and you're generally controlling a handful of groups of units instead of hundreds of individual units or trying to line move all your units such that they can all fire. Those kinds of games are also designed around multiple play sessions whereas ZK MP is designed around single session completion.
+2 / -0
Im fully agreeing with you on the point of "useing whats its designed for".

Where im not very happy on zk and spring is the disregard of scaleability, innovation, the not thinking of tomorrow.
"Yes we've designed them to work in and we've guaranteed them to work in X - BUT TOMORROW IS ANOTHER DAY"
On that front i have to praise you unknownrankShaman and Future Wars.

How long did it take for the Multicore Upgrade? Why was it (so long) Singlecore in the first place? Did spring/zk no do their homework and got left behind by the competition on this regard? How about a performance Update?


Ive got my doubts if i will
- ever see a 2. Full Lobpots.
- i can ever join/spec a match without catching up.
- ever be able to go back in time on replays. (maybe #keyframes)
- ever see a fully charged Zenith/Starlight not beeing a hardware stress test..
- see the 64 Player Lobpots again. (Hardware specs keep on growing)
- see a very lategame not beeing decided by player fps.
- See a AI falling back to an other player if the old host disconnects.
- ever see Players joining a game late, getting auto balanced to the "weaker" team and all thats left to do is to ask for a builder.

"does not mean that the game should be expected to function let alone be playable at that scale nor should we be expected to maintain it at that scale." not even giveing it a chance seems a bit ... harsh ... how about hideing it behind a warning till it does? Not nipping it in the bud and instead giveing it a chance to grow.


Maybe all im missing is a bit more hope for the future.

Im excited to reading your answer unknownrankShaman and learning a bit more :)
+2 / -0

3 months ago
quote:
- see the 64 Player Lobpots again. (Hardware specs keep on growing)


You mean the ones that almost always ended with "failed to allocate memory"?
+1 / -0


3 months ago
quote:
i can ever join/spec a match without catching up.


There are theoretical approaches to this using save/load, but as far as I am aware, it needs engine support. We have discussed this in FWDev in creating a "light mode" for the UI that disables everything except the catchup UI element and reenables the UI once caught up. While this won't stop you needing to catch up, it would at the very least increase the speed at which you can catch up.

quote:
ever see a 2. Full Lobpots.


The project needs a lot more people that do things if this is goal is to be reached.

quote:
not even giveing it a chance seems a bit ... harsh ...


A warning would be fine.. but I think that one should keep the game at sane sizes so we're not wasting valuable time trying to rebrand into a MMORTS instead of finishing an RTS we already have an audience for.

quote:
How long did it take for the Multicore Upgrade? Why was it (so long) Singlecore in the first place? Did spring/zk no do their homework and got left behind by the competition on this regard? How about a performance Update?


No idea but remember: spring as a project is over 20 years old now. Code base inertia exists. Its harder to do massive scale redesign in older codebases when that redesign touches so many systems. Double so for a project fueled by passion and volunteers.

quote:
ever see a fully charged Zenith/Starlight not beeing a hardware stress test..


Needs to take advantage of new advancements in spring for starlight to not be a hardware stress test, I think.
+2 / -0
3 months ago
quote:
Stellaris
I really hate that game. I tried twice in single player quite long games (many days) and each time I got more frustrated. I wanted to like it but really could not. One of the only games I bought on steam and did not recommend.

I think it is perfectly possible to improve the engine/zk to support as many player as you want. But as this is open source this needs to sound very good for the people wanting to put that effort. If it would be to guess I would say that people with the knowledge have strong enough computers not to have big issues and stable enough not to require catching up often.

For example, in my opinion website redesign would be more important than supporting larger games on older hardware.
+1 / -0
3 months ago
You need to try stellaris mods...
And buy all the Dlc..... (most of em are prtty good)
but the mods really make the game special (you can try out the total conversions for starwars/star trek, or go with a classic NSC3/planetry diversioty/more events or the dozens other great mods that add soooooooooo much content and flavor)
+0 / -0
3 months ago
Were getting waaay off topic now.

-> Back to Zero-K
+0 / -0
3 months ago
Zero k is just stellaris ground combat by machine empires.
+1 / -0