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About zerok (questions to programmers)

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5 months ago
Always thanking you for the work to make this game, which we love, work, I would like to ask some questions about Fac Air
What is the air fac for?

Why not call it Likho Air Fac?
What purpose are all the other units in the fac except Likho?
The last 20 games I lost in Team room wellcome, I lost, in the most acceptable case when my team didn't take the air fac. But the enemy does.

Or, and in most cases, when the player has air fac to:

a. only to fall safely behind the front line
b. just to do crane and echo (at least he claims)
c. just to do licho (this also applies to stronger players).

What is the use of two different AA units Swift and Raptor?
I say this because I think that in this game, even if they are not well defined, there are roles: in my case I like to play as a front man, like many others. But all my units fall under the blows not of the opposing units but of the various Ravens, Phoenix Likho, without our air player making any AA units. When asked for AA units you are told, make them yourself.
Bad luck? it doesn't happen often.
But how does a player who plays in front of the enemy waste metal and time making AA units? Without finding himself in difficulty with the enemy in front of him?
And above all, what should be done to educate Air players?
DErankJummy game tutorial?
See how the inertia of our fac air caused myself and ILranknimor to be destroyed last night in the early stages Multiplayer B1754220 32 on Valles Marineris 2.6
+1 / -0
if you lack a competent air player

* put yourself under a fully charged shield

* get a screamer semi-back, so it covers the contact line

* get a juggernaut (attact settings)

* get 2 hacksaws

* get emp turrets (enough)

* get a newton on attract

* get 4 flails or anglers

* ...



+2 / -0
5 months ago
The smaller the game the more effective the Phoenix and Raven are.

Honestly it should be the owl factory if anything.
+2 / -0
Air factory is for:
  • not letting opponents bomb you
  • bombing opponents (if opponents do not have competent air player)
  • scout (nukes/antis/lance targets)
  • pick things in the back (scythes, athenas, fast raiders)

I often pick planes because nobody picks it and I prefer it to getting bombed to death.

Still, depending on map, air can be quite inefficient. One artemis and it will take some time until air can do anything again (time to build silo + missiles :-p)

And if you want to win, you should fill in the role that is not filled, so occasionally that means not going front (although most games is true there are not enough front).
+2 / -0

5 months ago
Thank you all for the advice, DErankAdminmojjj, USranksomekid, FRrankmalric, very kind as always.
But I already knew these answers. Not a day I play this game.
My question was for whoever created this game, not for other players.
Understand if they really wanted to create a fac air this way or if something went wrong.
Where it is not supporting ground troops but is just a bomber. And the fighters?
+1 / -0
5 months ago
Thunderbird can also make a big difference - I always feel I don't make it enough.

And when I play air, the play style is quite different from ground play: you have to be more aware of global situation; you have to be more aware of static defense (more unforgiving/larger radius)

So in conclusion if air should be a different play style adding interesting strategic options I think this is achieved.
+1 / -0

5 months ago
quote:
Why not call it Likho Air Fac?


As others have said there is plenty of scope to use air fac other than Likho.
The way I see it you need to deploy air costing less than it would cost to saturate the battlefield with AA, given the advantage of air (mobility).

Then, either they don't saturate (so you attack weak points) or they do (you have to switch resources to ground and use your existing air defensively) - but either way you contribute.

What Likho does is take the AA saturation up a notch, so a density of cover that would stop the other planes isn't good enough any more. It gives you an escalation to keep air in the game. That said, I'm not sure that I am a huge fan of it. Perhaps if it had a role at half the cost and health, some of the properties of AA could be toned down and allow diverse air to operate longer in a crowded battlefield.
+1 / -0

5 months ago
I mainly play with only ravens and often get more damage dealt and value killed compared to using likho. Definitely less uses bit i feel people definitely dont utilize units like pheonix and ravens to full potential. Only problem is mass swarms are killed by artemis and it completely shuts it down. For incoming invasions into your land. I feel raven is better against almost all AA except for flaks because of the mass AA. Just my opinion
+1 / -0
Ravens have a limited use case and rely way more on your victims, err targets than yourself.
Underwater stuff, slow moving high hp fat targets (comms, assault, factory) with low aa density is where ravens shine. Bring in some actual aa or faster units or even a clump of units and ravens become suboptimal. Likho is better since it has aoe (biggest reason), is faster and can deal with late game unit clumps (juicy arty clusters) even in moderate aa coverage.
phoenix is underused, see my replay where I make decent use (while throwing the game...) https://zero-k.info/Battles/Detail/1754973
+1 / -0
ITrankmanero

I may not be a good player, or the person you want an answer from, but I think the purpose of the air factory is obvious. It is basically meant to be a support role played in big team games.

For example, anything bigger than a 10v10 should have air fac.

As for what you are addressing:

a. The Likho is a great unit but it cannot be used to early, or else the game is lost. Just like the rest of the lobby, there are also stages for the air factory.

1. Swifts (To kill other scout swifts and to scout enemy base)
2. Owls (To give vision to team)
3. Light bombers (Can be interchangeable with owls but used to apply pressure to the early units being made)
4. Heavy bombers (Used to kill big swarms and give your team a way to push).

b. Swift is more prominent when burst damage is needed (Likhos) and to kill small raiders. Raptor is good vs slow and ranged air units (such as the new Penguin, the Nimbus, Krow, Harpy, and Odin). Swifts can also scout for nukes and can scout locations of specific towers like Cerberus or Missile Silo.

c. The players can be a problem, which is why you want someone who is strong at air to play it. One reason that they might not have anti-air is because they are focusing on building backline metal extractors and linking them with wind tidal-or solar-generators. If they still do not build anti air after economy, the best strategy is to build things like Newton + Chainsaw yourself. It is a light investment of 1,150 metal, but it is very effective.

1. You also might say 1,150 metal is too much on small maps. You could go for a smaller investment like Thresher. Just remember that they also have a very low metal income, so things like Likho (which is not easily countered by Thresher) is a huge investment for enemy air.
+1 / -1

5 months ago
The discussion has partly changed thanks to the news I saw last night that AUrankAdminGoogleFrog is testing with two new units, it seems to me, always bombers. Great work AUrankAdminGoogleFrog.
The problem of the AA remains under this rain of fire!
+2 / -0
testing the 2 new bombers..... I can say they are not op/special
the penguin does not have enough burst to kill a mex..... (minimum buff needed to get enough damage to kill a mex...)
the other chonky one seems like a worse likho
+1 / -0
5 months ago
---
b. just to do crane and echo
---

I tend to use that a lot, since flying around for eco stuff gets the job done faster, at least out of range of anti-air..

I don't often use other air units, since I'm not super skilled in using them, as such, it would be a waste, better to leave that to someone more skilled.
+1 / -0