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Thunderbird - Disarm and slow?

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12 days ago
Should TB disarm and slow?

It feels underpowered at the moment. Short of having a bunch of raiders ready to leap in immediately as soon as the disarm happens, the targets are able to just run away and recover quickly. Also if there is at least one or possibly a handful of riots not far behind the targets, even raiders won't be able to do anything.

If there is significant AA, planes cannot even follow TB(s) to disarm shields with bombers because the TB(s) will never make it alive to begin with, unless you're throwing disproportionate metal at the target. In which case, just get likhos.


TBs are OK to discourage early raiding in team games, which is the niche of phoenix.

What role does TB fill, currently?

The one niche I can think of, which rarely happens, is if there is a lot of porc with no AA and the opponent quickly invests in a plane fac instead of a silo.
+2 / -1
Best use-case I know of thunderbird is when there's an iris on the frontline and you can fly through it. Usually leads to a nearly-completely disarmed shield ball. But it's really hard to do right. Similar's possible with a snitch for much more effect and cheaper too, though.

One potential buff: tbird shouldn't harm allied units
+0 / -0

12 days ago
Disarming shieldballs is the dream of any TB as it grows up from a tiny plane to a full grown warbird. Unfortunately, many TBs never make it to maturity due to encountering a natural predator hiding in the shield ball: felons.
+3 / -0


12 days ago
There was a fairly long period where Thunderbird was a 1v1 to small teams game ender.

It might still be, despite its smaller area of effect.
+0 / -0

12 days ago
felons fell so many fellas :(

maybe... give them a disarm explosion when they fall in?
+1 / -0
i think it is fine in terms of damage. but its so easy to kill. current phoenix's survivability looks interesting, lets try a similar HP buff on thunderbird?

for slow damage, could be an interesting variant - lets try this!
+1 / -0

12 days ago
OR give it back stun damage instead of disarm!
+0 / -0
12 days ago
Perhaps one could change how current EMP weapons (disarm and stun) work in general. The effects could be combined to make it possible to assign arbitrary duration values to either component. For example, maybe the Thunderbird could stun things for 2 seconds in addition to the current debuff. Furthermore, the latter doesn't have to be so similar to the former visually.
+0 / -0
12 days ago
quote:
If there is significant AA,
For me the question is should a felon count as "significant AA" ? Fine to not be able to do anything if enemy brought some dedicated AA (or racketeer), but now for a shield ball with mostly felons offers probably better AA than almost any other AA unit. Felon dps is listed as 707, which - from the AA units I checked - is only surpassed by Artemis (but Artemis costs more, plus costs metal per shot). I agree that there are difference in range and speed, still felon as AA seems overpowered. (I mean think of the poor vandal, how does it feel with a dps of 36 and only double range than felon?!)
+3 / -0
12 days ago
Felons are by far the biggest counter to air, however they are not op. Felons weakness is how they recharge their attack and and attack both air and ground. These means they they will lose if attack by air and ground at the same time. 1 felon is enough to kill tb.(about 2300 damage per charge) However if ground attacks first and weakens shields then tb survives and can disarm felon. I feel that felons do not need a nerf

Tb could easily do with an hp buff to prevent felons from tearing them down so fast or a speed buff(currently the same as likho) so that it can approach felons faster.

What makes tb strong is its shield damage. They can target aspis shield area, wear it down then likho kills undefended ball.


Vandals deserve a buff. They are extremely clumsy, weak with low dps and have to reload. They are much cheaper than other AA but have lowest dps. Felons are a much better choice as AA and all rounder. Vandals are the worst AA in the game and can do with range buff or reload buff
+0 / -0
12 days ago
Tb as a support is good, but has to be used with more units backing it up(tb and likhos).

Tb can also disarm shields particularly outlaws and felons so that cloked imps or snitches can attack
+0 / -0
11 days ago
The Felon wiki page advises to send cheap but high health units at the Felon first to drain its shields. However, air has no such unit. The only things it has that don't evaporate to a roughly equal cost of Felon are Likhos, which are good at hitting Felons but not by draining their shields, and maybe an Odin that dumps shields while the Felons are trying to hit it. The Thunderbird's Felon problem isn't about Thunderbird in particular, it's about how Felons interact with a whole factory of fast but fragile units.
+0 / -0


11 days ago
Slow and disarm on one unit feels too anti-atomic too me. But it is an interesting idea. One of the motivations for nerfing some EMP to disarm was that disarm is the same as EMP on structures, and TB should be good for assaulting defenses.

I think TB is a little uncommon, but it can still win games. I would go for something minor like an AoE or HP buff before doing anything drastic.
+2 / -0
I am sure I will enjoy myself if Thunderbird is further buffed (recalling that it recently got a HP buff). But I don't think it needs one. Thunderbird is still quite capable of winning games in five seconds flat. In particular, pick the right early game fight to intercede in (think commanders and riots brawling on the front) and that ought to swing the game quite considerably.
+1 / -0

10 days ago
Just a tiny HP buff to get into shields would be good
+0 / -1