Something needs to be done about unlocks

Once again, what about leaving unlocks as they are now, but making 5 different juniors (each with 1 lazor and 1 autorepair) to chose from?

Com unlocks (partially adopted from Lyth)
- unfair
+ customization (at least most people see it as advantage)
+ feeling of progress
+ makes noobs concentrate on actual game (compared to free coms/modules from the start, not to static prebuilt juniors)
+ deters smurfs

The biggest advantage of coms comes with the first few xp spent on unlocks. Everything beyond gives only a small advantage. So giving some unlock points from the start would be a solution (unlock points=a*lvl²+b*lvl+c, where a=20, b=80, if c was 1600 (which is just about the number of points needed for the most important things), it would be also c=a*b :). This would still allow for full customization and about the same feeling of progress.

Making (some) com chassis and some weapons unlocked by default is another possibility, but would have less customization. At least this is better than 5 different static junior coms (because still higher customization and no further complicating the system).

What do people who don't like com unlocks prefer? The range goes from "everyone has all unlocks" to "only junior" (which I don't like because it doesn't only remove the above advantages (except concentration on game), but also the strategic map depending decision for com). qwerty3w's proposal allows for interesting strategies, but doesn't seem to be suited for the current level of customization.

In any case new players should be told that com morphing beyond lvl 1 is usually bad.

I think that we shouldn't advertise with customizable coms, if people get to play zero-k, that already great, even if they think the coms are a bit unfair. They will soon learn that coms aren't as important as the units.

well im constantly smurfing, so i can tell you real smurfs use com junior cause they badass

coms used to be epic, back before all the com weapons and dguns were nerfed to uslessness. Now they are really just a trolly timewaster :P

People don't have time to research every game they come across in detail so when deciding whether to look into a game they use heuristics. This 'research time' can be as long as the first 15 seconds of the trailer. One of the heuristics for a multiplayer game is whether it has a playerbase because games which retain a playerbase and generally better than those that do not. A game with unlocks messes with this heuristic for a few reasons:

• Lots of people may be playing because they are addicted to unlocking things instead of because the game is good.
• The gameplay may consist of grinding to reach the powerful toys which enable you to blow up new players.
• Unlocks often have a micro transaction component so the company may be 'evil' and care most about profit.

I have not yet mentioned anything specific to ZK unlocks. These are just reasons that I am wary of games with unlocks in general. I assume this is how other people have seen ZK. All the discussion of whether unlocks are fair and how to balance them is irrelevant to how ZK looks to an outsider.

Now onto some paragraphs responding to various things in this thread with no particular link between them.

quote: The biggest advantage of coms comes with the first few xp spent on unlocks. Everything beyond gives only a small advantage. So giving some unlock points from the start would be a solution (unlock points=a*lvl²+b*lvl+c, where a=20, b=80, if c was 1600 (which is just about the number of points needed for the most important things), it would be also c=a*b :). This would still allow for full customization and about the same feeling of progress.

This will backfire. Players will make new accounts to try out different ways to spend their free 1600 xp. No system should actively encourage smurfing.

Giving everyone all modules at the start would not detract from player customization. Many people already have the XP for any commander but not everyone is using the same commander. Unlocking everything at the start could even improve customization as new players would not need to first build a safe commander before trying out more wacky things.

Does anyone disagree with this statement:
"Consider two players of equal skill, A and B. If Player A's Commander options are a strict subset of Player B's then Player A has a disadvantage."
Or perhaps consider Commanders as a handicap. Suppose Godde comes up to me and says:
"Gee GoogleFrog you're pretty bad so in this 1v1 I will take a handicap. I can only pick Commander Junior while you can pick any Commander."
Godde has taken a handicap which makes the game uneven with the purpose of making up for skill difference. Now what if you reverse the situation and do it for new players? Some experienced player gets to use all Commanders while the new player can only pick Commander Junior. The game is uneven in the same sense as before but the wrong player is handicapped!

The only argument for unlocks which I feel is worth responding to is as follows:

quote: People like incremental goals and rewards. Becoming better at ZK is a large goal with rewards that may take a while to yield rewards. People may lose interest in this goal or not even see it as a worthy goal when they first play. The unlocks system gives people short term goals and quick rewards so it serves to get them through the first X hours until they play for the sake of playing.

This does not work for people who come with the intention of learning how to play. Maybe someone watched a 1v1 tourney, saw there was skill involved and wanted to learn how. To them the unlocking period is time spent not learning the real game because handicaps are not representative of real games.

This thread is not about "comms op, nurf pls". It's about players having to spend 140 hours to unlock all of them.

quote: The current purpose of unlocks is to pimp the unit that should never leave the base.

quote: that is opinion-based, there are very good players who frequently defeat enemies with high level commanders.

quote: Yet every fac has some stupidly easy solution to coms.

Nevertheless, please tell me the comm counters for amphs, gunships, shields, ships, tanks and vehs.

Silly Saksi.
Amphs - Grizzly or few buoys,
GS - BD,
Sbots - felon + aspis or cloaked roaches,
Ships - anything, coms are harmless in water
HV - Reaper? Golly? Tremor, if its cloaky com; depends on situation
LV - Ravball; Leveler ball, scorcehrs ball, 3in1 ball, a bunch of dominis (if its not jumpy com)

quote: buoys ftw you cant escape disruptor gunz of ded!

quote: This does not work for people who come with the intention of learning how to play.

True indeed. However, there's different kinds of players, those who come for competitive gaming (as you said) and also those who are pretty casual and just want to see robots blowing up.

I recall that unlocks kept me hooked/intrigued long enough so that I stuck around to learn the basics and explore the game. Building your first nuke/drp etc. is exciting, but if you can build them all in your very first game in the sandbox, it's not a particularly lasting experience.

Granted, that doesn't apply to coms as much, but I still remember that I enjoyed unlocking modules. I learned quickly from 1v1, but I didn't come here to climb the ladder.


Now the questions are:
1. Do we want to appeal to only one type of players? (I doubt we do)
2. If not, can unlocks be applied in a way that keeps "casual" players hooked but doesn't scare away competitive players?

I really think that limiting (or granting) unlocks in certain rooms can help with this. It would however need to be made clear to "the competitives" that they don't need unlocks for the games they want to play.

Thinking of it, maybe there should be multiple ways of unlocking stuff. Like, play 10 1v1 games against >1600 elo players unlocks something, but reaching a certain point in the campaign also does that. Or just play clueless teamgames and unlock via xp.

I don't know, random ideas popping up. Still, it's of no use if people keep suggesting stuff that appeases only one of the sides. We must develop ideas with both kinds of players in mind.

I had that in mind, too, but dismissed it immediately. I mean, it doesn't really make sense, especially from a newbie perspective.