So I think mace is OP people starting hovers just to make maces when there is no water seems strange at least. Mace counters many skirmishers which is sad. In my opinion thing which can go on land and water should be more expnesive than land only units. Now it is same at very best.
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yeah i build assualts to counter them as skimishers get outranged, i think of it as a skirmish/riot unit
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Against ships it might be OK but I dont even think it is really OK should 400m land and water unit counter 320m water only unit? well I dont think so. Now mace counters almost all claokies. Also I think there should be general ratios, like someone said ships are OP by design well they really are since they are water only thats ok but why hovers are op? or even 1:1 with land units, lets say walking things has 1 cost ratio Air things has 2, hovers 1.5, spiders 1.25, vehs 0.75 and ships 0.5 cost ratio. I hope you understand what I meant there.
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It's definitely easier to beat hovers with vehicles than to beat vehicles with hovers. As I see it the problem with Mace is its high price. It is considered more expensive and because of this higher weight class more powerful than their vehicle and ship counterparts. In addition to that the model looks a bit too fragile for its hp, that could give opponents a wrong impression and thus easy kills.
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Mace vs 4 Rocko seems ok. It probably comes down to micro because autoskirm isn't quite up to the task. Even so if you run Mace headlong into Rocko it will die and it dodges around it won't have enough forward speed to catch them.
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Well it really should be easier to beat hovers with vehicles and not other way LOL, since veihcles nor fly nor can move on hilly areas nor swim. But at least light vehicles dont have mace counter, unless you make mine field or make many ravagers. But I dont even know if ravager beats mace for cost to cost. Also hovers cant be hit with torpedos which makes them aditional + and thats why they should be more expensive.
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Also mace is very good AA even if rockos makes cost, rockos are useless against raiders. Mace is all in one.
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Ravager completely destroys Mace.
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I have seen a lot of Mace rushes lately, and I must inform you that I haven't had problems with a single one. If you scout that maces are incomming, you just build skirmishers. Rockos easily make cost versus Mace, without losing any if you micro well. Same counts for rogues, and if you're going vehicles ravagers seem to work okay. I also can't imagine spiders having problems with a mace, since they have recluse. So that leaves jumpjet and heavy vehicle to possibly be weak versus hovers. Anyone ever played jumpjet/heavy vehicles versus hovers? I imagine a banisher or a jack would work wonders, but they are a little expensive.
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i had a game with googlefrog not so long ago where he did a very nasty mace rush vs my shieldbots on red comet. It was posible to fend it off and the game progressed normally. Now 1 game has little statistical meaning but to me it seems hovers are ok if you see it coming.
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With jump, you'd use slow skirmisher and maybe 2 pyros or maybe a jack. Firewalker might work, but it has low DPS and is slow.
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I've found myself using the Mace against as an anti-skirmish and even as a makeshift anti-gunship. It outranges many of the raider units and has enough health to potentially follow skirmisher units into a dark alleyway and trap them. It does lose to ships and artillery, though. But only barely. It's like a Ravager. Except it can float on water, shoot down fast units and be a general boss amongst your army.
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I agree, another "too good to be hover" unit is pene imo.
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Mace needs to be good anti-gunship because the aa-hover, flail, is absolutely atrocious vs gunnies. I also wouldn't rush to change mace, as Godde countered my mace rush pretty well in 1v1, and he didn't think they were op. I think if anything it should be just a tiny range nerf, to make rocko skirm them just a little easier. I would agree that pene is op, although that is because someone removed its old 300 energy firing cost so it is now possible to rush right at game start, and no longer rapes your early/mid game energy eco.
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Well I don't oppose a little nerf, but it would have to be really small - around 5%, definitely below 10%. A model or price increase would both look silly for how fragile this unit is. Pene's a bit different. I don't think it is seriously op, but probably too much about luck and rps. It needs a minimal hp and ordinary cost increase.
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Right, by small I mean like 370 -> 350. (~5%)
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I've been starting to write that post before you submitted yours, it was meant to be a reply to Licho's. Nice you agree.
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IMO this whole 'too OP to be hovers' thing, if hovers are only used on sea maps, then we're not really taking advantage of some really cool units. The problem is how they replace regular units on sea maps if they do this. However, what we really need is just to make some good amphib options in the other factories. Then hover -won't- be the only thing you use in the sea, and ships will be way more interesting. Making ships a bit weaker in sea (uh.. torps hitting them!) will help too. I think the e-costs were an important part of the anti-cheese for a lot of units. Sniper and Spy, great com-snipers, are currently balanced by the extra e they take in cloaking costs. Several other units, including pene, were balanced by this too. This only matters for really cheesy starting strategies, and i dont really think the game suffers much from the balance of these later on. I do worry that our game has some silly cheese options which will prove to be, if not too strong, damaging to the game due to the blind RPS or just not being very interesting to play. But it's best to fix that as they come rather than speculate on them blindly.
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MACE is OP even vs. another HOVERs. Eg: You can't kill a MACE (a riot) with another SCALPEL (a skirmisher). The SCALPEL will die even before its rocket hit & MACE still has high hitpoints left. This shows that MACE has surpassed its intended class. Riot supposed to be weak vs skirmisher. If enemy send MACE you should able to counter with another unit with minimal loss and not thru attrition (number vs number). Attrition war is lame...
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Or is Scalpel just UP? :)
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