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Precision Bombers VS commander

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In team-games above a certain size, precision bombers are more or less guaranteed to blow up my commander in the first 10 minutes. How do the better players deal with this?

Might add that I use a battle commander w/ ablative armor at lvl 1 specifically because it survives more bombers lols
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Jump comm if you are really having problems. Then build hacksaw.
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12 years ago
Basically, if you're planning on letting the Comm leave the homestead, never play Spiders or Vehicles. If he's staying home, hacksaws.
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12 years ago
Spiders and heavy veh have good AA.
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12 years ago
jasper they have good aa but in first ten minutes their aa isn't viable to that 400-500 metal cost XD
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12 years ago
Only hacksaw and fighters are viable early vs precision bombers
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Prec bombers were made unavoidable due to tracking.. also they can dive making them impossible to miss..

Personally i think it sux. There should be a room for commander micro evade.
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12 years ago
I'm tempted to do some testing. While the Shadows require more support equipment (scouting, a repair/reload platform, etc) I'm willing to bet that Shadows would come pretty close to making cost vs. every mobile AA unit in the game other than the Jethro and the Vandal. Probably some of the statics too. The hard part would be targeting.
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12 years ago
what? unless that is a very recent change, even battle commanders can dodge precision bomber projectiles by changing direction the instant the bomb is released - I have made bombs miss my boy on numerous occasions by doing such.
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12 years ago
1 thud with maximum shield can stop 1 precision bomber. Repair also helps. If you have a battle commander with ablative armor then 4 prec bombers are needed to destroy it in 1 run. There should be plenty of time to repair the com between bombing runs.
Dodging usually helps means you avoid some damage aswell.
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12 years ago
Dodging? I think that dodging is intended to be impossible, although I have seen a few rare cases where a precision bomb didn't hit quite right. Except for jumping.

Jump com is not a solution though because, against a decent air player, you can dodge one bomber at most. He simply needs to stagger his bombers so they don't all go to hit at once.

I agree with OP, I brought up ages ago that prec bombers were brutally good vs coms, mostly because I was starting air and rushing them every game to great success. It is true that the other team can counter with their own air player going fighters, but I am not sure that is a good solution. I think ideally it should be possible to play team games without absolutely requiring an air player on your team, although air support is usually a good role anyway.
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12 years ago
We aim to almost require an air player on each side in a big game. Otherwise air is relegated to an unimportant role.

You may not be able to prevent your commander dying but with a good air player and haxzor you should be able to kill at least 2 bombers.
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12 years ago
I wouldn't say anything is seriously broken by requiring an air player but I don't think that should be a mechanic to aim for. I think, anyway, that it is possible for air to be both optional and useful.
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12 years ago
I agree air shall be a must rather than optional/useful.

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12 years ago
If you have jump comm it takes 3 bombers to kill you. Often you have time to build hacksaw.
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'How do the better players deal with this?'
Don't go comm centric strategies. You know what Godde does? He plays default comm. I usually play e-cell comm, but even that is a gambit because while a comm as an e-source is harder to take out with land units it's easier to snipe with air.

Bombers are 450 cost. If you need even 3 to snipe a comm, that is 1350 metal. You can get a reaper and some kodas, a pene, a sniper, a spy and some recluses, hell, even a felon+shield, for that much.

Yeah bombers have more survivability (but way less versatility) early on, but if he can afford even a single hacksaw (or fighters), your investment is toast. I like that there are comm-hunting strategies myself. You shouldn't take it for granted that you can just push blindly into mid with your comm and gobble up territory with towers. With a bit of scouting, bombers broadcasts itself fairly well: If you know he is going planes, you know you need a hacksaw if you're pushing mid, and you cant afford to exit its range. This slows down the mid-compushing in a really nice way. Honestly, i wish this mechanic existed more in 1v1, as a mid comm push can be very strong.

I'd actually like to see more things like this. Skuttles and spies do this too, but they do not broadcast themselves (you cant infer from a jump/spider fac that he'll make them) and you dont see them until its too late. They also require just a bit too much E to be start viable. Their counter mechanic is different too: You need defenses and/or units around your com to spot/snipe the skuttle, or defend your comm and take out the spy if he gets paralyzed. At least it means no naked pushes.

Expecting 1 air player roughly every 5 players is what i'd aim for. Mandatory in 5v5, common (for at least one team) in 4v4. Air includes gunships, which become more viable the smaller the teams are. Guns are just as good as planes at sniping comms and eco (and better vs armies), but rapier isn't quite good enough to help vs enemy bombers.
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12 years ago
Just a note; Spy and Skuttle have that E cost to increase the cost of using them early game.
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12 years ago
Godde has been playing a jump comm. I know cause hes very hard to bomb.
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Yeah, I agree with the e cost Google mostly because spy and Skuttle don't broadcast themselves well. Skuttle especially though is really not very good vs commpush (But if it was, its kind of an ugly way to lose a com!). I think spy is well balanced because you still have to beat his army with yours- the only time its really good is comm wars, where it serves you right.

You are just going to lose a Comm or two in a big team game if you push with them. Chose a base comm and don't morph him. Keep him somewhere you can reclaim him if he dies and have other sources of E and BP.

Mandatory is probably wrong, but you HAVE to factor air into your strategy.

If you want to run support but not play Air, try Tanks. It is quite possible to do an early reaper rush, which can snipe coms and plow through defense (but needs riot or raider support vs enemy raiders). The Reapers HP can shrug off a few early bombers, and you can get out a flak (and if you like, Banishers, which do hit bombers) once he builds up enough bombers to be a nuisance. Once you have enough AA, you can even start fielding Arty (Doing it too early is asking for a snipe though). Tank cons also take 1 bomber hits, allowing you to easily secure any territorial gains without ever commpushing. Hell, i often go pure tank con when I play tank, and basically use them like a naked commpush. Surge forward and only dig in with static-d when you encounter opposition you cant laser or defender war to death (this often gives you at least 60% of the map). It works just like a commpush but can't be bombed effectively.

Another good support and air counter strategy is moderators. You can use the factory to raid with pyros or jack rush too (again, Jack shrugs off early bombers and com snipes well), but Moderators themselves actually work best when combined with skirmishers like recluses, hammers, rogues, etc, so work with an ally. Moderators massively increase the effectiveness of AA, allowing you to take out bombers with mobile AA rather than relying on hacksaws, and thus keep pushing.

Edit: Oh one I forgot, is Shield + Felon push. Felon snipes planes really fast, and while the shield wont help, the Felon can survive 1 bomber hit with just its HP, and the shield can tank anything else in the area. Keep your comm in the shield too, repair the felon, and you are free to push and take territory. Felon is just great against everything, raiders, skirms, riots. It can't afford to push too hard against concerted opposition or it runs out of power, but early on there just isn't enough on the map to drain it dry. If he knows what he is doing he will put down pop-ups and mass assaults, but by the time he does this you'll have more than enough territory since you're commpushing and can transition into a midgame strategy (Which can just be more felons and shields as long as its working :). It probably isn't actually a good counter to Bombers at 620 cost (1100 with the shield), but it is one of those few units that is effective vs land and air, and he will at least need to snipe the felon before he can bring down the comm.

Will you lose comms with these kinds of strategies? Probably. But you'll be barreling down his throat with a strong mobile force which is immune to his bombers, so you have a good chance of at least taking enough territory to get the wrecks and put you in a strong position (And since you have no air, he wont have AA, putting you into a perfect place for a midgame transition into air to bust that wall once all the defenses are up- hey, I said it was a strategy where you didn't START air...).
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12 years ago
how about taking a constructor and a riot with your com, give your com a shotgun and rush a hacksaw?

300 metal, repair with constructor and protection from following raid attacks of your direct opponent.

If you can't afford that, it is your team's fault.
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