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Someone seriously needed to be spaming tremors or seismics this game.
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ah. Seismics? seriously though, I managed to save my team with cloggers :p their shield balls became ineffective, their heavy units got stuck, and it slowed down the game to a pace where we literally bored them to death.
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it only wins games against dribbly noobs.. a competent player will make 2 sesmic missiles then roll through 'not even mad'
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>it only wins games against dribbly noobs.. a competent player will make 2 sesmic missiles then roll through 'not even mad' So the correct counter to Dirtbags is to stop everything, make a 1200 metal silo + 1000 metal in missiles, all just to smooth terrain? You've got to be kidding. I played a game on Folsom yesterday. We're less than 10 minutes in, I've won the dam and I'm going in for the kill. The enemy starts spamming Dirtbags and forces the game into 43 minute battle. Sure, it didn't win the game for them, but it sure as hell made the game unfun. I can't think of a victory I've had that was less fun. I don't mind being countered by other units, because trying to figure out the correct counter is FUN! But Dirtbags are just an annoyance. They were literally created to do nothing except be annoying, and they excel at that. They take a fast-paced, dynamic game like Zero-K and grind it to a halt. Can we just remove this unit and be done with it?
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If the enemy spams enough dirtbags to block up folsam, they are making a fair investment.. 50 clogggers (and they would probably need at least this many) is 1000 metal. The missile silo is also good for other things. Assumably they only blocked the middle, which is not the optimal way to win Folsam in any case.
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I think we should up the cost to 30-40 and perhaps drop HP a bit, give them more LoS and perhaps speed, and a small death explosion. Then they can be used decently as scouts and for light harassment, but are worse at just bogging the game down. And/or, we can lower the mound height. Wow the Seismic costs 500? I didn't think it was that much. I'm lowering it to 200. All it really does is restore/smooth terrain. Either way there were mechs on either side, someone should be building a missile silo anyway to cover the map in fire- It's actually the perfect thing to do when you're behind a clogger wall and the game has bogged down.
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Bots are fairly good, Spider and Jumpers > Dirtbag.
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Yeah it's not the 'OP' so much as what it does to the game and certain factories (esp vehicles).
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I do think some kind of hack might be needed to handle the case of "dirtbags block up factory exit" though. Never had it done to me, but I'e seen it used several times... its' the most hilariously frustratingly awful/awesome stunt ever.
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It just needs to be more visible, the mounds. Propose: some dustcloud animation on death + decal on the mound.
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>Spider and Jumpers > Dirtbag You realize that Recluse, Venom, and Crabe all have massive amounts of AOE, right? Just by spamming Dirtbags the enemy forces the spiders to shoot themselves.
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Decals on landscaping was tried before - it has all kinds of problems. When do you remove it? What happens when they stack? Using engine decals will result in an automatic fade out after a fixed time.
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I'd think fading out is okayish as such, its use would be just to temporarily convey that Something Went Wrong Here, and that it was a dirtbag's fault. That and the dustcloud could cue some people to the antidote (i.e, terraform the crapmountain away from their fac) Well that, and some loading-screen about terraforming.
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I like saktoth idea of increasing cost and adding a "small death explosion", especially if it results in chain explosion. If it becomes much more micro intensive, it may reduce popularity of pure spam.
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My problem with Dirtbags, other than just being stupidly annoying, is how much they can bog down a game. They can reduce almost any strong offensive push into a weird sort of standstill where your units just shoot nonstop. Any AOE units you have all start killing each other in their attempt to kill the Dirtbags. By the time you've got the situation under control, you've got this huge mess of impassable terrain that forces you to either A)Build a new factory B)Build a missile silo C)Manually smooth the terrain Option C is especially hilarious because the cost of smoothing the terrain is higher than the cost of the Dirtbag, i.e., it's an anti-counter. I think people use them so much because they are a cheap "counter" to almost anything. "Oh, I'm losing ground? Better spam Dirtbags!" There are so many other creative counters that could be used, but newbs continue to fall back on Dirtbags because they are just so damn effective at what they do. Really, I think they could be removed and nothing of value would be lost. It would force people to learn "proper" counters to units instead of falling back on a Dirtbag spam.
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I left one game because of dirtbags clogging the middle bridge. I even built a silo and seismic missiles to de-clog it, as the game had completely slowed down anyway, but after two missiles and a bridge not clear yet, I just grew bored and left. I saw later that my team won, that said, so this whole clogging thing felt kinda pointless. I don't use dirtbags, for some reason I don't like them. I directly use raiders to scout instead.
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its defo easier to clog than de-clog atm
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