What the hell is this, why bandits don't have regeneration, but kodachi have? Where is the logic here? It does not exist, complete stupidity. Do I need to explain that this is not fair?
My commander was killed by the welders when he was in 3 LLT and a picket, what kind of nonsense is this?

Judging from your activity on forum, I have a feeling that you have a problem with whichever factory you just play with, izirayd :D

Actually, Bandits with regen would be quite frightening, since they are not absurdly fragile like Glaives nor expensive like Kodachi. Its likely that without AoE they'd just end up swarming over everything.

I know what you want Bandit's health bar to look like

quote: Kodachi (and Scythe) has enhanced regen to tie into the Tank retreat-and-repair gameplay without costing constructor time or energy.

why do bandits have to expend energy, but not kodachi?

quote: Their relative costs, usages and power.

Two units of group A, which are fighting against one unit of group B. Units of group A will take damage, if you take one unit from group A, then the second unit from group A kills a unit from group B. All units of group A are alive, but one of them needs to recover, after recovery we have two units in group A and 0 units in group B.

Concept for healthy prices and dps.
For the price, the unit has basic characteristics, which in general can characterize the efficiency of the entire unit, the most basic are dps, health and price. DPS introduces the concept of time, because in relation to the dps and health of the enemy unit, it is determined how much the enemy unit will survive. Survival time is another important characteristic, simply because it is derived from the basis of the characteristics of the unit.

Unit A with 100 DPS will kill enemy Unit B with 200 HP in 2 seconds.
Unit survival time is 2 seconds. We can relate the price of a unit to its survival time, having received a new coefficient that determines the effectiveness of the unit, another thing is that this coefficient is more complicated since there are many other states, but we will come back to this later. This coefficient of efficiency relative to the price determines the efficiency of the entire army of the player's units, since all the outcomes of battles are a set of efficiencies and states in movement against the enemy.

Health, DPS stats are static stats, which means they work without movement, they don't need global space. There are also dynamic characteristics, they determine movement in space and these are positions, speed of movement. The positions hit the point of impact (maybe a beam), which results in an attack radius. A lot of points for impact creates AoE, or if the point of impact creates its own points of impact, another type of AoE, new radii, these points of impact can move at a certain speed relative to time (which is a projectile), and so on. There are also less important characteristics, they are simply deduced from those characteristics above.

Dynamic and static characteristics determine the unit as a whole, there is also its price.
Dynamic characteristics are important for a duel and are a part of it, in fact, it creates the entire gameplay of the game, because in a duel on static characteristics for the player there is less action. The fact that there are dynamic characteristics is only the result of the work of formal logic that exists in graphs and there is nothing special in it.

The attack radius and movement speed create battle tactics. Here we can get a situation where unit A with a smaller attack radius, but higher movement speed is able to compete with unit B, which has a larger attack radius, but lower movement speed. Unit A is able to maneuver effectively enough, one of his maneuvers is to retreat, then he is able to inflict damage due to the dominance in the speed and movement of the projectile. This is how unit types appear. A unit's movement speed is its offensive and positional advantage over a unit that is slower than it. Then the slower unit with a larger radius is forced to play from the defense to defend the position. It is from these characteristics that these tactics emerge.
I have excluded the human factor from this description, it plays its dominant role, but in a certain way. By the way, there is also ping, FPS as factors.

--

Let's look at the stats of Kodachi and the Bandit at 17%.



It can be seen that Kodachi is faster than the bandit.



It can be seen that the bandit's attack radius is larger.

But what does this radius give?



In the image above, the kodachi lies completely within the bandit's attack range, but the bandit does not attack him. By the way, this is a collision. I checked the work of the radius at which the kodachi strikes, outside of its radius. Here you can see the kodachi will hit the enemy unit outside its radius. Is this on purpose? It turns out that the kodachi inflicts damage to the bandit in violation of the declared radius, being 17% faster than the bandit. About it: Even in this match it shows itself.

--

In this match, @Godde kills the first bandit, and the second cannot attack the kodachi, as he uses retreat tactics.





-75 metal for me, efficiency -370 hp or -54% or 94.5 metal from the price of kodachi. In this case, Kodachi attacked, that is, these -94.5 it was an attack, the bandit would not have been able to attack, the Kodachi would have escaped. The same kodachi received another 100 damage from llt. Further, this kodachi is shifted to another position. Recovers 50-60HP; Kills the drone, takes damage, moves. Another kodachi attacks the bandit and kills him, taking only 308 damage, which is 45.3% health or 79.2 metal. Both of these kodachi stand back to comfortable positions and recovered to 100%, that is, the damage of 173.7 metal that I did, it became equal to 0, that is, I did not cause any damage to the enemy.

An imbalance arises, because "The coefficient of efficiency relative to the price determines the effectiveness of the entire army of the player's units, since all the outcomes of battles are a set of efficiency and states in movement against the with the enemy.", The effectiveness of the shield army is equal to 0 for this stage of the game.

The only positional game, I managed to defend myself from the attack, it turns out I donate the army in order to prolong the game.


This imbalance in efficiency has already been observed with the old kodachi and the bandit, when several kodachi killed bandits at a cost of 1400 metal with 0 metal loss for the kodachi. The only difference between that game and this one is that in this case, the health regeneration characteristic makes the effectiveness of the bandits lower, when in those days, the effectiveness of the bandits against the kodachi was associated with the attack radius/movement speed/dps and regeneration.

--

Look at the moment in the 2nd minute of the game, here one kodachi dominates 3 bandits, cost 225 metal, they could only deal 55% damage to him from his health.






Why, in this case, these bindits cannot receive regeneration, but the kodachi are already receiving it? This can be seen in the last screenshot. These thugs have to wait 60 seconds? In 60 seconds, the kodachi gained 300 HP and will fully recover and will be able to kill these 3 bandits, reaffirming the 0 bandits' effectiveness. This forces me to build LLT on my base, instead of a cara. 300 HP is if kodachi kills the enemy, then 300 HP is roughly equivalent to 77 metal, which means that 77/60 = 1.28 metal per second brings kodachi with its regeneration - this is relative, but I have to build bandits, and nothing is required to build kodachi.



Kodachi recovered from his fight with the bandit and went to the lower region. All further developments are a natural continuation of what I described above.

Based on the above, I declare that judgment:

quote: Their relative costs, usages and power.

Is wrong.

--

@Godde has an excellent micro, he is a very difficult opponent, but we played a lot of games, many of our games can go into the middle stage of the game, but in this case you can see how bad the bandits are in terms of effectiveness against kodachi.

Shield does seem to have trouble here. I'd say it is most due to Bandit not quite having enough range to engage and gang up on Kodachi easily. It even lost some of its range advantage with the introduction of the fire-towards-enemies state for Kodachi. I'm not so sure that Bandit can afford to be generally better, or Kodachi generally worse, in other matchups, so I'd like to see some more exploration and experimentation. Perhaps send Bandits in groups from the start rather than let them get picked off. Maybe an early Thug + Outlaw to apply raiding pressure is effective. It shouldn't take too long for some focused testing to get a feel for other options, and it would help hone in on what might need changing.


Technically, range is based on the distance to the centre of the target, not the edge. It is expected that Bandit doesn't shoot here.

Iirc there's a tag that lets the likes of Scythe and Dirtbag attack the edge of target even if center is not in range. Perhaps shorter-range raiders could have that too.

On the subject of bandits being inferior - what do shields do vs bolas? Bolas straight up own bandits.

Please continue any further discussion about balance in the split thread: no page 2s in battle threads please.

Split: Bandit and Kodachi

Further posts in this battle thread about things that don't specifically happen in this battle will be pruned by me.