Loading...
  OR  Zero-K Name:    Password:   

Split: Bandit and Kodachi

11 posts, 287 views
Post comment
Filter:    Player:  
sort

27 days ago
Continuation of Battle thread B1232285 because battle threads don't deal with multiple pages well.

Posts of note: izirayd manifesto about kodachi and bandit
+2 / -0
This looks to me like a classic case of "I didn't enter the picket's range why did it shoot at me?"

Kodachi is predicting the movement of bandit. When the predicted bandit location is inside of kodachi's range, it aims and shoots at where bandit will be. Which is why in your video bandit can fire at kodachi from range, but also kodachi can fire at an out of range moving bandit(only when bandit is moving closer to kodachi). I had thought this might have something to do with the new fire in the direction of units gadget, but looking closer that didn't seem to have a large effect.

Also note that kodachi has some inacureacy, as well as the aimpoint being a predicted position means that by firing at a invisible floating target at the edge of range, it's possible for a projectile to fly overhead and past the max range, impacting many elmos outside of kodachi's range.

Finally, by watching the replay I do believe that 2 bandits well microed can either dissuade or kill any kodachi that wants to go through any chokepoint in redcomet. One bandit alone will half kill the kodachi when it charges head on, 2 with some spacing definately can kill a kodachi that charges headlong into them both. Just be careful that koda's riot like properties don't burn too strongly against both bandits at once.
+2 / -0
27 days ago
quote:
Kodachi is predicting the movement of bandit. When the predicted bandit location is inside of kodachi's range, it aims and shoots at where bandit will be. Which is why in your video bandit can fire at kodachi from range, but also kodachi can fire at an out of range moving bandit(only when bandit is moving closer to kodachi). I had thought this might have something to do with the new fire in the direction of units gadget, but looking closer that didn't seem to have a large effect.


I noticed this effect starting around the time that prefire or whatever it is called was introduced. I could have a scalpel sit outside of the range a stardust would fire with it not getting shot at, and the stardust would start shooting if the scalpel moved towards the stardust, and then it would stop firing again after the scalpel stopped moving. It's possible this was already happening even before that point, but that's when I started noticing it was possible.
+0 / -0
The part i dislike about this behavior especially on stardust is that, because of overshoot and assorted other reasons, Stardust seems to be hitting the unit outside its nominal range when "predicting" this way.

Eg. a Scalpel moving towards Stardust and stopping right before its range will be hit on approach, and then be ignored. This seems inconsistent.

---

On Bandit vs Koda:

- Kodachi design intentionally leaning into retreat advantage as a unique mechanic as opposed to being superfluid like everyone else feelsbadman to me.

- Bandit Glaive Flea Dart etc could maybe have edge targeting like Scythe Dirtbag.
+1 / -0
quote:
The part i dislike about this behavior especially on stardust is that, because of overshoot and assorted other reasons, Stardust seems to be hitting the unit outside its nominal range when "predicting" this way.

Eg. a Scalpel moving towards Stardust and stopping right before its range will be hit on approach, and then be ignored. This seems inconsistent.


Take the "blunt" AoE off the weapon. Remove overshoot. Add an invisible chain-lightning style projectile with a tiny range that replaces AoE, who's damage falls off with the range it has travelled.

I appreciate that this wouldn't work for something that leaves a true aoe splodge like kodachi though.
+0 / -0
quote:
Take the "blunt" AoE off the weapon. Remove overshoot. Add an invisible chain-lightning style projectile with a tiny range that replaces AoE, who's damage falls off with the range it has travelled.

I don't see what the invisible chain lightning projectile achieves here at all. If the goal is to clip the damage volume of the aoe to its intersection with the targetting volume of the stardust, we can do that directly while creating significantly fewer entities.
+0 / -0


27 days ago
Shooting before the enemy gets in range, on the prediction that it will be in range, is a result of aim lookahead as far as I recall. Kodachi is meant to lean into retreat advantage. I agree that two Bandits seem to be enough to stop a Kodachi, but perhaps the micro requirements on the Bandit or Kodachi are a bit uneven.
+0 / -0
I have no problem with aim lookahead, but i think combined with Stardust weapon physics, it causes this:

+9 / -0
quote:
I agree that two Bandits seem to be enough to stop a Kodachi, but perhaps the micro requirements on the Bandit or Kodachi are a bit uneven.


The new fire towards enemy widget has made micro quite a bit harder on the defending size, since it encourages using hold position to avoid chasing into fire, but Kodachi is easier to defend against without hold position so you don't get picked off at range and take the full DPS. Not using hold position should still be easier, but the widget has certainly increased the micro burden (it was quite reasonable before since misusing a Kodachi would also result in its instant death).

(Snitch has no efficient counters for Tank other than Radar + Welder, and can probably make up for the lack of a normal riot on the Shield side, it's basically the only way to secure kills against a triple-digit speed unit.)
+0 / -0

26 days ago
+1 / -0
USranknop
26 days ago
Maybe Koda having pre-fire retreat advantage against other raiders suggests Koda's range could be reduced so it has to be more retreaty to get range against other raiders. That way it gets zoned by raiders, but not killed unless both sides commit. It can still rush in and tank LLT (like a tank) but becomes less rioty. Koda would be worse against Bandit in this way because Bandit has long-ish range.
+1 / -0