It is getting out of hand... No single unit should be as powerful as hermit spam is. Even the things that should be counters for it don't work very well. I think lowering the health just a little bit would do the trick.
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Make placeholder and eat those hermits
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Collect replays and post them.
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quote:
Make placeholder and eat those hermits |
Doesnt work when they also pepper in a few other ranged units that easily kill the placeholders. Plus that only helps with preventing them from moving forward temporarily. They can just keep building up until they find a way to kill the placeholders
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After the tracking update: https://zero-k.info/Battles/Detail/2426334Before the tracking update: https://zero-k.info/Battles/Detail/2426331Any change seems to be insignifcant. I ran another two tests on these but concluded my methodology was somewhat sloppy in those. However in those failed tests I did note that the density of hermits does seem to have an effect of their capabilities. We see here, that the spread out hermits die surprisingly quickly. I can conclude, althought not confidently, that the Brawny Dante tracking update had very little to no effect. As as can see the bandits actually perform better before the tracking update. Of course there is also the possibility something is wrong in the way I conducted these tests, but I found them to be somewhat fair. One of course cannot deny some of it is up to the luck of the draw, but it does seem it's about equal before and after the update.
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This game I hermited and won an entire side of TheRockFinal by myself* against three people: https://zero-k.info/Battles/Detail/2424939However, I did have air support, and one of their players was air. My opponents were defecent (2400) on spiders, bumaya (1000) on shield, and Qubic (2200) on air. I also had greater income due to my team being down a player, and I had an additional com which didn't get used much. I didn't really do anything except monohermit, and it felt like the lane came down to more hermit beating less hermit. This game I also monohermited: https://zero-k.info/Battles/Detail/2423708Defecent (2400) went fencer. There may have been an opening where he could have pressured me, but he missed it and I bum rushed him down once I had a few hermits. While the other team killed one of my team mates, I took the map with hermits and then finished them.
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What are viable counters to monohermit? I feel like I haven't seen many players actually counterplaying. Ogres seem to do it if you have enough. Phoenix do if you have enough. Knights seem like a good counter to me - I haven't seen many players counter with. Lances are okay, but you do enough enough of an army to hold them off.
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From what we have found so far, best units are rogues, bouys, knights and dante. The issue is however, that a blob of hermits can just push them for half the map while the skirms are busy pummeling at it. Here comes placeholder I suppose. The range of hermits is pretty good, especially if they can get themselves a hill. Unless you have some method of constantly applying a DoT on them. It was a test we did with    raaar https://zero-k.info/Battles/Detail/2425965Also desolators do very good, but they aren't mobile despite all my wishes.
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https://zero-k.info/Battles/Detail/2426408?This game I ended up hermiting to try and close out a game we were already advantaged in. We did end up winning, but notably my attrition was terrible and I didn't seem to be able to break Mayxi's juggles alone, relying on my team mate to take over the rest of the game.
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I play most often play Rover or Cloack (without using the cloacking because I'm stupid). I'd rather face a hermit spam than a RedBack or recluse...
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Here I tried lobbed scallop against mass hermit. I felt like I had pretty good army size etc., but still never was able to take a favourable engagement. https://zero-k.info/Battles/Detail/2426502?
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https://zero-k.info/Battles/Detail/2425426The game that got   bbar97 to open this thread. bbar97 it caught my attention that you wrote something like "hermit spam is stupid, we had higher income all game." Which was simply not true, even if I thought the same (about or eco) being in the opposite team. My impression is that hemits are strong, but not as oppressive as people claim. Here are some replays where hermits are used, but did not seem to be game-changing in any sense: https://zero-k.info/Battles/Detail/2426034https://zero-k.info/Battles/Detail/2425974https://zero-k.info/Battles/Detail/2426502https://zero-k.info/Battles/Detail/2426532
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about https://zero-k.info/Battles/Detail/2426502?  SnuggleBass I might be totally wrong, but during the game (as your ally) I was wondering why you attacked with an inferiour army-size. That's how it looked to me though, and I usually overestimate enemy-army size by quite a lot.
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Hermit being surprisingly good on a flat map even against buoy, though Godde may have been the real deciding factor with emis: https://zero-k.info/Battles/Detail/2427002Also might be relevant: https://zero-k.info/Battles/Detail/2426883
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https://zero-k.info/Battles/Detail/2427002 was decided more by Godde getting away with murder with his 2 Kodachi in the early game, Chonkgoose not finding value with the early Archers, and bread070707's excellent performance in their lane. The hermits were probably not much more effective at what they were doing than thugs would have been, but do take fewer hits than thugs would so it's hard to say for sure. Lack of Impaler for west felt like a mistake as well. In the second game the Hermits did an excellent job of holding ground but couldn't really push successfully. Honestly, looking at these games I would have been more worried about Ravager than Hermit, Ravager felt like it was doing more on a per pound basis. Venom and Hermit being the same factory feels a little awkward for the mirror. But Hermit in the mirror has been strong for years. I think Spider not having a real raider is more of the problem here than Hermit being op, but I've always felt that way. I feel like what I saw from Hermit in the games I've watched recently is what I'd want from assaults. They're taking up space, pushing the lines forward, resisting the pushes, and allowing other units to achieve victory.
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https://zero-k.info/Battles/Detail/2427025Ok, this is braindead though. It is 50 minutes so I don't expect many people to watch it but it's basically hermit spam till striders and nukes. Possibly just due to the conditions of the map, but other spiders seemed not to have much of a chance either.
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Has anyone tried redbacks/crabs? These seem to work pretty well to me, but might be in conditions not facing the full metal value of hermits head on.
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Redbacks seem to get skirmed by hermit. Crabs sometimes make cost but are also overwhelmed when there are large numbers of hermits, a counter but not a reliable counter by any means, as it can still die quite often. Redback-hermit does win over hermit itself I think.
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