I think ZK-Dota lets players outfit their commanders ingame. Since 6 slots are not enough to give players a wide range of commanders for different situations, use that system in ZK too. I've lost a countless number of games - and I'm sure other players did too - just because I couldn't chose the modules I needed. Balancing the game around pre-game decisions, or forcing players to change their commanders before each game (which still doesn't cover every situation) is retarded.
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There are things about units which cannot be modified ingame. Most notable is weaponary. Dota probably runs off a lot of 'hacks' to change some of it's attributes but I would not be opposed to someone adding this system in.
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quote:
I've lost a countless number of games - and I'm sure other players did too - just because I couldn't chose the modules I needed. |
Anyone else see a problem with this? Think about it.
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AFAIK zkdota custom com mode just plasters all available weapons onto one unitDef, and dis/enables them on per-unit basis.
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quote:
Anyone else see a problem with this? Think about it. |
that is un-+1-able phrased. what do you think of the meaning of my +1 ?
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The problem is that there's an impression by some people that modules are something you "need" in order to not lose the game. If you are under that impression, then you will also be under the impression that a player who has not unlocked modules will be at an unfair disadvantage.
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+1 for the ability to select com modules at runtime -1 to the rationale attempting to justify it
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Skasi I think it would make game more unstable. As     Sprung said you just add lot of weapon defs into one unitDef. But after, u need to modify unit's animation script to allow weapon enabling/disabling. It is actualy a big hack. UPD. U can have ony 16 weapons and u cannot have two weapons of the same type.
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If weapon choice was more limited, one could probably generate a unitDef per each of the weapon permutations for each chassis and then modify other stats per unit. While "all permutations" sounds like wasting a ton of space, there are currently about 20 lv1 weapons and less than 10 dguns, so if each one was unique to exactly one chassis you'd get about as many (or much less) different defs as can already appear in clusterfucks (up to 36 per person!)
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SprungAnd what about modules? U also need to generate unitDef per each module. Okay. Not per each, but modules such as Advanced Targeting System or Autoflechette cannot be done well by gadget. Assume that com cannot have the same weapon twice. So if u take current situation you will get: Only weapon combinations: Recon: 6*8=48 Battle: 11*14=154 Strike: 10*14=140 Support: 6*7=42 Bombard: 8*10=80 I hope I counted weapons right.Additionally, Advanced Targeting System cannot be made by gadget (I tried and found that this solutions is so buggy) So we have: 7(6*8 + 11*14 + 10*14 + 6*7 + 8*10) = 3248 However, there are conversions and modules like Autoflechette, so we have more than 3248 combinations.
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What about this crazy idea: make dummy unit for each weapon & modification attach the invisible unit to Commander's hand and make it obey's commander's command. Now, when commander attack something, the 'weapon' copy the order and shoot. Its like fake_unit for Shield in ZK Dota too!
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I think the current system adds a nice layer of strategy/chance to the game. Also, isn't the in game UI hard enough already without this too?
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...or you just take the baseline commander. I've almost stopped using custom commanders in team games entirely. I find them too random and unfair towards newbies. Add to that that i hate it to go over everyone's player profile to look for troll commanders. This is undoable in team games. When there is someone with a cloaked D-gun commander i'd like to know that before it reaches lvl 3. Maybe someone can make a widget that pauses the game as soon as you see a new commander enter your los? That would give you some time to look at it's stats.
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What do you think of giving the 4 standard commanders new players get morph options? We can make some nice set up with the current modules?
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Skasi : not really, but: 1) fac choice is kinda like a "pre-game" decision, you (usually) pick your factory before knowing what enemy is doing (except in large games, where a few players may wait until scouting) 2) com choice shouldn't affect game too much, I'm not a supporter of hero coms... and so I do not agree with or care about "I've lost a countless number of games just because I couldn't chose the modules I needed" 3) still, it would be nice to be able to pick com modules at morph-time... because we have those hero coms that I don't like I don't even know what kind of modules I have on my coms beyond level 1... having the information about next-level modules in the tooltip of the morph action would already be a big change for me.
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> some comms are just extremely good against some enemy composition. If the enemy builds something and you have a comm that is a good counter that's fine. If your comm is a better counter than building certain units that's bad. That means having an unlock gives you an advantage over someone who doesn't have an unlock. The point of unlocks is not to cripple new people so they are less likely to win! Why am I having to explain this? What's next, pay to win?
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  [V]sheepquote:
2) com choice shouldn't affect game too much, I'm not a supporter of hero coms... and so I do not agree with or care about "I've lost a countless number of games just because I couldn't chose the modules I needed" |
This confuses me. I agree that com choice shouldn't affect the game too much, but right now it has a pretty big impact. To me it sounds like you hate hero comms just as much as I do, so why do you say you do not care?
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