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Disarm OP and Autorep need a buff

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9 years ago
Disarm from Racketeer is OP, the devs should nerfed it.
But why the Devs nerfed Autorep.... idk...
in wich theard is the autorep-discossion.

I Cant unterstand, that you nerfed autorep.

The Commander its more unplayable... also Assault, Melee etc.
The only you can do with commander Cloaked and high range shit.

Without AUtorep its not good playble Melee.
Why you nerfed Autorep?
+2 / -0

9 years ago
Because free resources and free hitpoints on the strongest unit in the early game can be too strong i guess.
+1 / -0
9 years ago
The Commander is in the beginnig of the Game tooo strong, and this is the reason, the devs nerfed Autorepair, i unterstand this right?
+0 / -0

9 years ago
i dunno, i am just guessing
+0 / -0
9 years ago
It would be nice if the responsible developer can say a few words to.
+0 / -0

9 years ago
Could be for consistency's sake. Auto repair is already in the game but works differently for commanders.
+0 / -0
Skasi
Ein Grund ist der dass keine andere Einheit diese Art von Autorepair besitzt. Die Fähigkeit war einzigartig. Commander sollen keine einzigartigen Fähigkeiten besitzen, das ist eine wichtige Grundregel dafür das Spiel nicht zu sehr auf Commander zu beschränken.

Das nächste was andere Einheiten als Fähigkeit hatten war verzögertes Autorepair wie etwa bei Glaives, oder Unterwasser Autorepair wie bei Einheiten aus der Amphibious Operations Plant.

Nebenbei sind Autorepair bei Einheiten mit viel HP, sowie konstantes Autorepair potentielle Gefahren für die Spielbalance. Das ist auch der Grund warum das Reparieren von Einheiten mit Bauarbeitern nur mit einem Viertel der Geschwindigkeit läuft sofern die zu reparierende Einheit vor kurzem (<10s) Schaden genommen hat.

quote:
It would be nice if the responsible developer can say a few words to.

Hat er schon. Ups, hab nicht ganz aufgepasst. :D
+1 / -2
http://zero-k.info/Battles/Detail/305743
Heh, I knew this game would have to have existed for a thread like this to be made....

If you send a single highvalue unit on its own across the map it is entirely reasonable that your opponents should be able to counter it with bombers/skuttle/disarm/sniper/whatever.

EDIT: The linked post is about the morph change, not autorepair change. For that matter I don't think Googlefrog has much to do with commander balance.

As for the complaint in that replay that the game should be balanced around clusterf*** team games rather than 1v1... I'm going to have to go with "QQ MORE".
+2 / -0
9 years ago
I agree with you xiv,rackeeter 2 op,I maked a thread bout this,but nobody gived a fuck.
+2 / -0
Skasi
9 years ago
Shush @Gerald_, I agreed with you in that thread! >:[
+0 / -0

9 years ago
quote:
Disarm from Racketeer is OP, the devs should nerfed it.

Reasoning? Replays? Any arguments other than "I personally hate this mechanic as it counters trollcoms"?

quote:
The Commander its more unplayable

Good, now you have to rely on actual units. ZK is an RTS, go play DotA if you want to micro one unit.

quote:
It would be nice if the responsible developer can say a few words to.

Here you go. Also what Skasi said.
+0 / -0
9 years ago
Yeah disarm is OP. In my opinion racket should be reverted to use good old emp instead. Lets face the facts: racketeer has been in shield factory for such a long time and somehow trollcoms were still made (also it used to be even stronger because of emp).
Autorepair was nerfed propably because it was just too good for its cost and i partialy agree with this. However as it is right now this module is really bad. Could its' rep rate start sooner than 10s? Like after 5s. That way it could at least run away from some skirmishers and artilery while regening a bit.
+0 / -0
FIrankFFC
9 years ago
yay i want 200 hp/s regen com!
+2 / -0
guys, why nerf a good OP unit? why not suggest to buff an UP unit to kill Racketeer?

Can you imagine what happen if ZK dev always nerf units? What exciting unit is left to build then?
+1 / -0

9 years ago
quote:
why nerf a good OP unit? why not suggest to buff an UP unit to kill Racketeer?

because then you'd need to build said unit instead of morph com 24/7
+1 / -0
I am rather sad to see autorepair module in its current state. Autorepair does not counter skuttles or high alpha units used to kill the commander. In fact it was quite helpful in giving you minor survivability. It may have been "too good" for its cost, but it was one of the useful modules. Instead of completely changing the mechanic, why was it not made more expensive? 300 metal for example would mean a level 1 commander with autorepair and your choice of weapon would likely cost 500 metal meaning you would be going all in on a single unit

no raiders

bad in 1v1. In team games, this too would be balanced (with diminished effect) in that you'd have no units and 20hp/s won't help you much against 10 or so glaives.

Or better yet, why wasn't the effect of the module made less effective (like dropping repair rate to 15/s)? Why the hell was this changed so dramatically instead of tweaked?

Furthermore, why is the old string still used? Why didn't anyone bother to update it to reflect this change? I personally would rather see 15/s or 300m cost autorepair that worked like the old one than this new-found uselessness.

And I agree that racketeer is a little too effective. Not because it "counters trollcoms" or anything like that but because a single racketeer can shut down any one unit indefinitely on its own with LoS*. Id say it might be better if it didn't have so much disarm damage so that heavier units would take multiple racketeers to disarm it/keep it disarmed.

* once it has been disarmed; I believe that 1 is enough to cause disarm/keep it disarmed for most common assault units, though it may take a long time. Striders may be another story though...
+1 / -0


9 years ago
Autorepair was changed more to keep things consistent with other autorepair units, as has been said previously.

For survivability, there's always armour plates or high density plating. I realize the Comm morph system is totally owled anyway, but making the modules more equally useful seems like a good thing to me.
+0 / -0


9 years ago
But now the site text is inconsistent...

If you're going to owl the autorepair module, would it be too much to ask to update its description?

quote:

Autorepair:
Repairs 20 hp every second. Damage disables it for x seconds.


If this is the new route for autorepair, why not make that disable time 3 or 2? That make it significantly more useful than what it is now.
+1 / -0
9 years ago
Also in connection with this Theard:
http://zero-k.info/Forum/Thread/9893?page=1

I support Drake's proposals to 100%.
Here again, the mechanics were changed.

Whenever a Commander setting appeared to be too strong he was nerfed.
In addition to the e-cell I remember the Heatray Com.
My former "Monster" was after the nerf also unusable.
This was followed by the Concusion Cell.

A wonderful weapon, but be the nerf with the extended reload time,
I've never seen a Commander with the Concusion-Cell.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I really never a commander a Concussion-Cell see use.

And now the wonderful Auto Repair has been nerfed.
No, he was not only nerfed, it has changed its mechanics.
One might just as well but can reduce the repair rate to 15 / sec or 10 / sec. Or the module can increase in its costs. And the argument that this game mechanic is nowhere else available, I can not quite understand.

Then the Concussion-Cell would still be completely removed, as well as the Hellfire grenade and the Cluster Bomb.
These weapons are also unique to the Commander.
So I can not see what the "Auto Repair Module" differs from the cluster-bomb?

+2 / -0
9 years ago
The much bigger problem on "Auto Repair" Chanche was the change of the system.
So many melee Commanders no longer work.
I see no great benefit for the future more a Commander to the final stage to morph.
And my personal opinion, Sometimes a Commander looks a bit too much,
but when I have expert opponents,
they know how to defeat me.
The cheapest is the Infiltrator, followed by Skuttle and ultimatum. Works just as well a handful of Ravens.
And these are just a few ways Cloaked Roaches, ticks, or a handful of tanks, 2 Reaper also kill my Commander.
I play every day my Commander and it's really just that easy to destroy me for the opponent when they have no experience.
Many times I die, despite auto repair modules.
I can only conclude that you have the change of auto repair-Modules in melee Commander (So flamethrower, machine gun and so on) no real Chanse more.
+0 / -0
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