would it be posible to make it so to emp a unit of X amount of time you need to do X amount of damage? ie: stiletop hits com, does 8000 emp damage stileto emp cost/s is 1000 com hp is 6000 8000-6000=2000 emp 2000/1000=2 seconds emp time then the com is hit again by a second stileto that dose anothere 8000 emp damage since com is already emped this is added to previous emp 8000-0=8000 emp 8000/1000= 8 aditional seconds of emp 2 + 8 = 10 seconds total emp this change would prevent a single stileto from stuning whole armies of heavies permenantly, but still leave weak units vulnerable to it
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one good idea, like this formel!
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how is the formula supposed to work when target's hp > 8000?
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target hp 8000 emp damage 8000 8000-8000=0 total emp time 0 sec but the little emp bar will be full, so the next attack will emp the unit
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For comparison, this is current Spring's emp scheme: second = 40*(paralyzeDmg - maxHealth)/maxHealth That may not make sense, but here's how you determine paralyze damage from second (this is Spring's emp! I'm not defending any kind of emp scheme, I just want to show comparison) paralyzeDmgToApply = maxHealth+maxHealth*second/40 Which mean: if you want to paralyze a 8000hp unit for 0.0001 second, you apply 8000paralyze damage, but if you want to paralyze it for full 1 second you add maxHealth/40 To add 2 second paralyze, add 2*maxHealth/40 plus the 8000paralyzedamage
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Wait low HP units aren't easier to paralyze? Wut?
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stiletop hits com, does 8000 emp damage stileto emp cost/s is 1000 EDIT: com hp is 12000 ( some platings stuff :D ) EIDT: 8000-12000= -4000 emp EDIT: -4000/1000= -4 seconds emp time (not emped) then the com is hit again by a second stileto that dose anothere 8000 emp damage since com is already emped this is added to previous emp EIDT: 8000-4000=4000 emp EDIT: 4000/1000= 4 aditional seconds of emp 4 = 4 seconds total emp EDIT: Add a third stiletto would do 8000/1000 = 8s additional, each stilleto above EMP-limit would add 8s. WUT: Even to dets? OP !!!
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quote:
EDIT: Add a third stiletto would do 8000/1000 = 8s additional, each stilleto above EMP-limit would add 8s.
WUT: Even to dets? OP !!! |
can we permaban kitty for being a noob? as of this moment you need 11 steleto to emp a det, 12 if you want full duration then you only need 1 to attack every 12 seconds to keep it emped, or 3 gnats
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You cannot just have a 1000 'emp cost/s' value. It needs to depend on HP. If it takes 1000 EMP to do 1s extra stun, this does not work vs low hp levels or at low levels of stun damage: Unless every single unit has a unique 'stun damage cost/s' which is retarded because a unit can be hit by multiple EMP sources etc etc. So it needs to scale off of the units HP. Say with some multiplier, maybe 40. Oh hey, that is how it works. This does mean though that an 8k unit needs 200 damage per 1s stun. So a 12s stun time vs an 8k hp unit takes 10400 damage. A 30s stun time vs a 5k HP unit takes 8750 EMP damage. We could lower the multiplier I suppose, if that's technically possible, IF we consider EMP to be OP.
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a better equasion: Ed=emp damage Et=emp duration Hp=curent hp He=curent emp damage if Hp-He<0 unit is emped taking damage adds to the He value (which degrades over time) timing equasion Et=(He-Hp)/Hp^.8 Hp^.8= He degredation per second what this means (real numbers) a jack at full health has 5000hp lets say jack is hit by stileto for 8000emp damage jack takes 8000He damage 8000-5000=3000 He damage left over 5000^.8= 910 emp damage degredation per second 3000/5000^.85= ~3 seconds emp time Hp^.8 causes larger units to have their emp timers degrade significantly slower then small units, meaning a det will be easier to emp then a glaive (reletevly speaking, det still needs 5000emp damage per second)
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> Et=(He-Hp)/Hp^.87 Is the '7' an error of you? :) first post> this change would prevent a single stileto from stuning whole armies of heavies permenantly, but still leave weak units vulnerable to it prev post> Hp^.8 causes larger units to have their emp timers degrade significantly slower then small units, meaning a det will be easier to emp then a glaive (reletevly speaking, det still needs 5000emp damage per second) Did you change your mind? You want heavies to be easy to stun for a smaller ammount of time? Or do you want heavies to be a bit harder to stun for an even smaller ammount of time?
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fixed it, its a leftover from when i was tweaking it to get good emp deg values simply put. A flat multiplier, as sako sugested, either makes det imposible to emp, or makes any other unit in the game insta emp pwned. seting it to an exponent (^.85) makes light units significantly harder to emp then heavy units in proportion to their Hp. what this translates to is: 100 hp units having an emp degredation of ~40 (40% of hp) 1000 hp units having an emp degredation of ~250 (1/4 of hp) 10000 hp units having an emp degredation of ~1600 (1/6 of hp) 100000 hp units having an emp degredation of ~10000 (1/10 of hp) meaning heavy units are proportinately easier to emp then light units, but only in terms of damage needed per second of emp time
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If Stiletto is the problem vs heavy targets we can reduce the stun damage on the Stiletto. Changing the whole EMP equation is only a problem if Spy, Venom, Gnat, Zeus, Tick Farraday, Panther, Bantha, EMP missile and Stiletto are all problematic. I do not think this has been demonstrated in the slightest.
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except by the masive nerfs to gnats, ticks, spies, emp nukes which have all happened, if you look at the full history of ZK emp has allways had the problem of being able to freez units/armies instantly, due to the insane damage emp has (most emp weaps have over 1000 damage) and all these changes have been mostly to emp time, because it is extremly easy to get full emp timer (all it takes is 1 extra shot once emped) quote:
the main problem:
in theory atm, you only need 1 gnat to keep a full health det emped, once det has been hit by stiletos |
its nothing to do with damage, or emp timers although stileto damage is still too harsh for irs aoe/carpet bombing spread
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Gnats got also buffed in terms of hp... Faraday got nerfed to less stun time than venom. We don't have a single equation - we have reload, we have stun time and we have damage. Are you sure that we don't just have to adjust these values? We could give stiletto a single unit emp bomb with maybe 6000/8000 dmg and AOE with 1000 dmg... So it could stun 1 heavy with light support, but not heavies with medium/heavy support.     mojjj EMP missile nerf: not a nerf, just a bug fix for engine change.
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emp missle was holming dets beyond their visibility. epic awsomnesssss.
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kitty yes nerfing the stileto will work, the overall effect of this will make it just as usless as evry other emp unit in ZK. but doing this will not benifit ZK in any way, because it dose not fix the root problem: emp is all or nothing, you eithere emp them, or you die trying thats what this equasion does, it changes it so emp can work on a scaling mechanic, rather then all or nothing mechanic. it will make it easier to balance emp weapons, and make them more player friendly... of cource long duration emp weaps will need a rebalance (read as massive damage buff), because of how they are curently balanced (but this group is only tick, spy, emp nuke, and rackateer)
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I think the best thing to fix this issue is an advanced formation behavior. Stiletto is mostly op, because the current formation behavior clusters units together. @[EXPLETIVE_REDACTED]> You've got it wrong (I don't mean NERF) I though that it could use 2 weapons at the same time. * The anti-heavy part attacks things like det, reaper, jack, coms and does maybe 8000 damage (like now to coms) to the single target and has NO AOE. * The riot-part attacks like now, but does at max. 1000 damage to all affected units.
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[EXPLETIVE_REDACTED], I'am soo confused! help me, pls see this Spring equation and tell me what it need to change: paralyzeDmgToApply = maxHealth+maxHealth*second/40
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second = (paralyzeDmg - maxHealth) / (maxHealth ^0.8) should work, maybe replace maxHealth with curent health (no idea what that value is stored as) the 40* multiplier is probably what is causing all the probllems with emp being OP good luck, tell me if you get it to make results, and how it feels to play with it
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