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Title: [A] Teams All Welcome
Host: Nobody
Game version: Zero-K v1.8.5.2
Engine version: 104.0.1-1510-g89bb8e3
Started: 3 years ago
Duration: 102 minutes
Players: 25
Bots: False
Mission: False
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3 years ago
My god that was awful all round. Suicidal bombing run (I really don't know why I bother with them), multiple detri feeds, nukes all round yet somehow even Zenith couldn't end it.

I'd say this map earned its name.
+1 / -0
Zenith sadly didn't have the range on critical infra. It was equally awful on our end too.
Misery enjoys company, I guess.

I really don't understand why Zenith, Starlight, and Disco don't have map wide range.
+0 / -0
USranknop
3 years ago
You'll just have to build it closer.
+0 / -0

3 years ago
quote:
I really don't understand why Zenith, Starlight, and Disco don't have map wide range.


Because it would be too OP. ON larger maps at least players can stay out of range and somehow maybe find way to win it. Otherwise with such range one zenith/drp/starlight would be just instant win with no options to counter.
Nuke have unlimited range.
+0 / -0

3 years ago
but nuke can be stopped by front antis
+0 / -0

3 years ago
quote:
but nuke can be stopped by front antis


Follow then FFA rules in such maps - if nuke don't work you build more nuke. One you get three silos then you can defeat one antis. And there is possibility of covert operations when you can disable/destroy antis. And nothing can block nuke aoe. Even DRP, starlight or zenith can be blocked (or partially blocked) but not nuclear aoe. Only thing which can detonate nuke before ground is full funnel shield but still it cant stop aoe.
However i still think that antinuke is OP because it can stop two nukes at once.
+0 / -0
The point of game enders is to be op to the point of ending games.

Both Zenith and starlight have opportunity costs for striking out against than critical targets. Zenith loses meteors which means a wasted alpha. Starlight's opportunity cost is longer time to start murderifying other more valuable targets.

This is beside the point, as games are supposed to be ended fairly quickly once game enders come online. These are pseudo win conditions, and building a Zenith or Starlight should have enough range to strike at all critical targets. The means of shutting down said win con should rely on a lack of intel or distractions and not on a lack of range on critical infrastructure.

If all else fails, having additional range on starlight, DRP, and Zenith tied to grid could make things more interesting. I read that there was interest in overdriving superweapons, so maybe this could satisfy the complaint by having overdrive impact superweapons with additional range + damage (or perhaps beam rotation speed?) for starlight, fire rate + range for DRP, and meteor attract rate + range for Zenith.
+0 / -0
USranknop
3 years ago
The way superweapons are done now you have to think about which one to build and where to put it. You have an opportunity to take more or less risk for more or less gain. In other words, it's a game. I don't think superweapons should literally be a win button. That's anti-game.
+0 / -0
Having it tied to grid would also keep it as a game as you'd need to take into account how defensible the grid connection would be and it would require you to maintain defenses around the grid. Maybe in addition to this, there could be minimum grid requirements for the devices to function (at underclock speeds, perhaps?). An example idea of this would be:

Starlight
StateGrid EnergyMalus/bonus
Offbelow 100Cannot operate
minimum100-50% range, cannot craterpunch
Underclocked150-225Craterpunch reload +50% - +0% time
Overclocked226++1% range per 50 energy, Craterpunch +1% reload speed per 50 energy

Here the bonuses could be minor enough, but pouring more eco into pushing range could become a strategy.
+0 / -0

3 years ago
I would like even more powerful superweapons for so large maps. I even have some ideas. More costly, more range and more power.
>Dominator - global dominatrix ray which would convert any units in short time, range larger then starlight.
>Dark matter generator - infinite metal production so everyone can spam striders in masses,
>Lightning storm generator - you can call ligtning storms in any map region to damage and stun enemy units. This mean also stop any enemy superweapon.
>MIRV nuke with 10 - 15 nuke reentry vehicles built from special silo. After explosion make everything burn and emped. Need two antis to intercept one reentry vehicle.
+1 / -0

3 years ago
To be honest, I'm happy with superweapons not having unlimited range. As in this case, it meant a sufficiently obstinate team on a large map could fight back even despite the supposed win button being on the other side. Simply investing 40K metal in a well protected spot shouldn't be a win button by itself. Some additional thought or effort ought to be required. I'd very consciously positioned my attempt to raise a DRP nearer the centre of the map precisely in order to be able to rain on as much key infrastructure as was possible. Had it occurred to me a lot sooner to build it, the game may have been over a lot quicker. Of course, it's always a bad sign when I'm the first one who thinks about building a superweapon.
+0 / -0