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Can we De-OWL planes?

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As per topic - I suppose addressed to yonder developers - are there any plans in the pipeline to de-OWL planes, and if so what form this will take?

Swift, Vamp, Thunderbird & Licho all seem OK. Licho is perhaps a bit iffy in that it breaks the rules by being totally generalist and usually requiring much skill (or a screamer) to effectively counter. The 2k metal hit for if you screw up and lose it does counterbalance this though.

That leaves room for thought on variously..

quote:
Vulture


I don't think I'm alone in thinking that this either needs to be cheaper or to do something else besides be a radar/sonar tower. The swift is a much better penetrative scout with its speed boost.

If it had the speed boost of the swift, it might be used for scouting, accompanying swift balls, and be more survivable.

If it had some kind of niche offensive functionality (for example, a powerful moderator slowbeam or single target EMP) it would be more useful and likely to be built by high elo players and used early game.

quote:
Raven


The Raven is confused, UP, broken and ugly. I dream of it one day becoming non-diving, high flying and specialised to hitting immobiles - essentially functioning like any other artillery in terms of what it works against - and incapable of flying under shields (which are useless enough as is and easily shut down with a silo or thunderbird).

This would also mean introducing another, low flying strike unit for hitting mobiles, like the kestrel. But it would be nice to hear other ideas.

quote:
Phoenix


Fragile and depressingly weak/niche. The old Phoenix murdered cloaky & spider in a way that ruined low weight units in large games too early on.

If we assume that a useful AoE anti-mobiles bomber ruins the game, and move to what other flying AoE roles would be useful, we arrive at persistent flame area denial. That makes it more effective at pushing cons out of an area and slowly melting porc, and worse at turning 20 rockos to cinders.
+2 / -0
IMO: Vulture is fine (long-distance direct line of sight is underrated), Raven is fine, Phoenix could be a bit cheaper.
+1 / -0


9 years ago
Would Vulture be OP if it cost 250m instead of 350m? how about 200m?

tl dr; its overpriced and people use swifts to scout instead.
+0 / -0
The issue with vulture is that it is expensive, and that scout units die after one scouting run. Increasing its survivability in any way would help greatly, be it d-boost, more hp, or something else. I would avoid lowering vultures price, but instead make it worth its price. We already have enough cheap scouts.

Ravens are just terrible now. Being slow enough to not hit raiders also means they are slow enough to be hit by most of the heavier units they are supposed to counter.

Phoenix suffer from targeting issues mostly imo. More HP would make them ridiculously op. Changing how it targets would be a good start to making it more reliable to use.
Blue is bombs path/final location. Red is the target.
Currently, targeting works like the top image.
If the phoneix dropped its bombs in a square or circle pattern(like bottom illustration) all at once while attacking, it would actually gain something from having more than 1 bomb, instead of hitting like 3 and missing the rest. It would be more sensible to use, because you can predict how bombs will land.
+1 / -0
9 years ago
Vulture is great in ffa, but a cost buff would be good IMO
+1 / -0
In my view Vulture is not for scouting as such; it's for hovering just over your lines and giving huge LoS (for Impalers and such), making your opponent commit to long-range AA or giving you good intel.

It's also good when the front line is moving quickly one way or another since you might not have the cons or the time to throw down a radar.

I build them now and would probably build them somewhat more if they cost less. (Not much more, though. I typically build one and only one when I airswitch.)

In other words: It's not worthwhile to try to turn Vulture into a behind-enemy-lines scout, because the Swift is perfectly good at that job already and the Vulture has its own distinct role.

As for Ravens they are now mostly good against statics and very slow units (and get built for that purpose) which I'm entirely OK with. I do not want to go back to the days of Raven monospam defining the entire metagame.
+0 / -0


9 years ago
quote:
The Raven is confused, UP, broken and ugly

I will agree with one of these. The ugliness known as precision melee bomber is an unholy thing.
+2 / -0
there is nothing confusing about a fast high flying bomber that dives steeply while slowing down when it approaches the target, and then proceeds to slowly chase the target around at ground level?
+9 / -0
Compared to a bomber that needs to dive so it can hit the targets with its sword by clipping through them while ignoring all collision rules, that's nothing :D
+1 / -0
9 years ago
quote:
there is nothing confusing about a fast high flying bomber that dives steeply while slowing down when it approaches the target, and then proceeds to slowly chase the target around at ground level?


It is confusing. It would be so much better if it would just drop its bomb and miss then soar back to the sky (to be rearmed) instead of the current mechanic were it gets shot down by the mobile that it is chasing so slowly.

There is a justification for this mechanic: once a dive bomber begins its run, it is committed and its path is/should be mostly predictable, slight variation for units that move in its drop zone allowed. They need to drop their bomb to regain altitude quickly.

And as for vultures: they also have a niche function as mobile sonar. Lot cheaper and more range than the actual sonar.
+0 / -0
quote:
Compared to a bomber that needs to dive so it can hit the targets with its sword by clipping through them while ignoring all collision rules, that's nothing :D

And whats the reason it has to dive that low by the way? Why not just up the altitude of the dive's low point a bit? You dont need to dive far to get underneath a shield, which, as far as i remember, was the original intention for implementing it.


Slowdown on dive is just a dumbass crutch some fuck pulled out of his ass because apparently just nerfing the stats is boring and every time there is a problem with balance we have to invent a new mechanic to solve it.

quote:
Vulture

Vulture is a mobile sonar. You build it when you realise the detriment has no sonar despite being amphib.
+0 / -3

9 years ago
RUrankYogzototh

Dude, language.
+3 / -0
Like boost on vulture for a buff. Lets you patrol the front with auto-retreat turned on, and lets you do penetrating scouting with it.

Like bomber-split, but we all know Frog hates the idea.

Like the idea of phoenix providing longer-term area denial instead of just riot. Reducing its bombs into to like 3 well-spaced long-burning fireballs would be nice.
+0 / -0
quote:
Dude, language.

British English please, thank you.
Which word has offended you, my sensitive friend? What would you like me to replace it with so it doesnt hurt your feelings?
+0 / -2

9 years ago
We both know you weren't calling AUrankAdminGoogleFrog a bundle of sticks.
+1 / -0
9 years ago
Vulture should be given a massive HP boost, so it can function as a front-line scout without having to worry about instant death by AA. HP boost could also give it a intresting roll as a absorber-of-swift-missles in dogfights

I agree with Feather regading pheonix targeting: as it stands, the pheonix is wildy unpredictable and thus much harder to use then it should be.

+0 / -0
Vultures are the best source of sonar.
They have 1400 Line of sight, 1400 sonar and 2400 radar(better than basic radar).
Vultures are very good in sea games especially as it makes you able to scout vast areas quickly and makes your torpedoes accurate with their combined LoS and sonar.
They don't need to be buffed. They have their niche in the sea game.
+3 / -0


9 years ago
Idea for buffing vulture:

All enemy labels in radar range of the vulture will be shown to you. All enemy players who's camera is in the radar range will send their chat to you.


Time for spying.
+1 / -0

9 years ago
"apparently just nerfing the stats is boring and every time there is a problem with balance we have to invent a new mechanic to solve it."

This is called thinking out of the box. Apparently, not your cup of tea.

+1 / -0
Skasi
9 years ago
Oh oh oh oh, make Vulture like Flea. Let it cloak when standing still! :O
Or give it a Leveler sidearm.
+3 / -0
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