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Win Conditions to prevent the stalling of games.

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3 years ago
A continuation from http://zero-k.info/Forum/Thread/32868
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3 years ago
Overwhelming advantage could be a win condition, since if your opponent has 25x more crap they can just Select all their units and right click in your base. Though overwhelming usually only triggers when a team is hunting down the last stragglers of the enemy. so perhaps make it trigger only at 10x or even 5x? (which is still enough for a right-click victory, even with raiders against stardusts)

we might also do it through metal income. As having less mexes might not necessarily mean losing due to the exsitance of supermexes and overdrive, so pure metal income is a better measurement of economy.

A way to prevent these win conditions from feeling unfair would be to make it so that the winning team needs to hold that condition for at least let's say 2 minutes. with a warning popping up after 1min and 30s (the first 30s is a buffer to prevent the game from spamming the warning due to one team being right on the trigger threshold) and the game only ending after the whole countdown finishes
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I feel like anything that is a win condition should be visible to players the entire time, which could reveal more information about the game state than might be desirable.

For example, revealing the current balance of metal income, or mex control, or total cost of living units, is basically giving each team some important economic information about the other, which would definitely affect how games are played.

Could such a win condition be implemented via a new super weapon, maybe? Imagine a large hacking-related machine that can take control of the entire enemy army after a globally visible timer runs out. The enemy can prevent this either by destroying the machine or by building their own copy, which can defend against 2-3 such machines. Its like an insta-win global nuke with the defense mechanism built into the same unit.
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3 years ago
Then add a function, showing the opponents the reasons of their defeat XD
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3 years ago
There's the Win Button.
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BRrankManored It would not shown the economy or living units of the enemy team until they have more than 5/10x more, and for a good while. It would be pretty obvious to players that the enemy has 5x more units or economy, let alone 10x. SO I don't feel it would reveal the game state too much.

FIrankVermind There is no such relevant win button. If you are talking about the button created when you get the connection problems detected for opponent pop-up, it doesn't mean anything here since it requires your opponent to DC.
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3 years ago
AUrankStuff , the 'thing' was called IWinButton and it was a modoption. it was expensive and just deleted enemy units, one by one, no matter where on the map till there arent any left.

it was removed sadly in 2016 something: https://github.com/ZeroK-RTS/Zero-K/commit/b869966ca94cd8dc52d9691ac4ee229235ba58e5
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3 years ago
Zenith, DRP and Starlight are the I WIN buttons.
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3 years ago
For me personally "stalling of games" is not a big issue. If I am in the winning team, I have more time to be happy team won. If I am in the loosing team I can resign and take a small break (which, occasionally, with fast resign and start votes is not easy).
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quote:
It would not shown the economy or living units of the enemy team until they have more than 5/10x more, and for a good while. It would be pretty obvious to players that the enemy has 5x more units or economy, let alone 10x. SO I don't feel it would reveal the game state too much.
I understand that's the intention, but I feel like if there were to exist an arbitrary counter that determines victory or defeat, it should be visible to players all the time. Currently we have the 25x plus thing, but that only kicks in when a side is so destroyed that it doesn't matter.

Also, I'm not sure amounts even as relatively low as 5x would work. I have a habit of looking at the total metal value of both teams throughout the match at the end of the game, and the difference is never large. Even when a team was clearly winning for a long time before their final victory, the kind of stuck game this proposal is trying to avoid, the difference at the end is still not normally greater than 2x. The losing team doesn't dip under that until the final minutes of a match when their frontline collapses, and at that point their doom is too near for resignation to matter terribly.
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3 years ago
I would have a hard time dredging up the battle number as it was a couple months ago, but there was a game where our team had too many people that disconnected or were afk to make a resign vote pass. The game was so clearly over, but there was a few units still scattered around. People on our team who had resigned resorted to telling the enemy team where to find them in the chat in order to get it done with more quickly.

I guess maybe what happened is the solution to the problem.
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3 years ago
I've had this crackpot idea for a possible win condition for a while; might as well spitball it out there:

Designate Commanders and Factories as "Command" units (along with other units that the designers think are significant enough). If only one player or team owns any Command units, a command-victory countdown begins; at the end of the countdown, the player/team with the Command units is declared the winner. The countdown stops if another player/team builds or regains a Command unit, or if the player with Command units loses all of said Command units.

Take that idea for what you will.
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3 years ago
I have another one of my stupidly dragged out game. that match was Super speed metal and our team had won, except some lobster decided to take the comms of their resigned allies and terraform them into a deeeeeep pit (like starlight-proof levels of deep). I didn't know how the game ended as I lagged out but I do know it got dragged on for like 30 minutes.

Personally I feel like win conditions other than "make the enemy resign" should only take effect when it is clear as daylight that the losing team has no chance. I've had games where lobster decided to build a simcity in a corner of the map.
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3 years ago
I like the command units idea. If all of a team's commanders and factories are dead, they have almost certainly lost. We can slap a 2 min countdown to be sure.

Stuff: what you described probably counts as trolling, so it might be the case to call the admins.

It would be difficult to find a solution that would work for speed metal, because in speed metal even a team that is losing by a huge margin still has a huge production power.

I guess you could spam assets until you have that 25x advantage? Krows are super expensive and can fly to make up space, so you can spam krows.
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3 years ago
Just making sure people haven't forgotten that regular Spring has Commander Victory. Losing all commanders on your team -> game lost. This is similar to what was just discussed except with a timer and factories included.
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3 years ago
Is this a solution in search of a problem? How often does someone hide a flea just to delay inevitable defeat.

But if this is a serious problem, just have a 60s timer or something start when one team has 100x the metal cost in living units as the other team. A small number of hidden fleas will quickly be overwhelmed in terms of material cost and you don't need to show the players until it has happened.
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With the new storage system I added to FW I could probably run a defeat check of "If all players on a team have 0 storage, kill allyteam if not ffa"

Maybe add a defeat counter. "Number of players remaining without storage" doesn't reveal a lot of information.
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3 years ago
System could watch also how many players resigns and how much left. If system see that all top players resigned and left only low level player prolonging game then countdown begins. Like there is 8 vs 8 and 4 is silver while 4 is yellow. All silver resigned and remains only yellow. Or remains some yellow and one silver. Then countdown is started. There is many situations when game is stalled because high rank players resign but low level superstars continue time waste because 'ruskie niezdavaietsja', 'we nevar surrender', 'i m blind and can't see map', 'im playing my own porc corner and i dont care about everything else', 'i just wanna get all awards now so i prolong game'.
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3 years ago
quote:
If system see that all top players resigned and left only low level player prolonging game then countdown begins.


O and yes there should be at least two exception of this rule. One is DErankChesti and other one is ILranknimor. Both of them is high rank players but always prolong game even if it is 100000% lost. :D
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I thought of an idea.

Victory points: have a score difference of 300/600/900.

Lose 1 point per 100m lost
Score 1 point per 100m produced.
Lose 1 point per 100m excess.
Gain floor(200/teamsize) whenever an enemy resigns.
Gain 1/teamsize point every second an enemy player doesn't have a con.

Players may see their score breakdown but not enemy score breakdown.
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