Nanoframe spam is a problem

BAN nanoframe spam.

Nanoframe spam is still to overpowered, and abusive. At this point an artifical cap of something like 2 nano every 5 seconds per con is needed.

The way I saw this post, thought "I bet if I go to his profile there's going to be a game he lost against fahx within 10 minutes of him making this post", went to Tarkin's profile, and found a game he lost against fahx 7 minutes before making this post.

He's totally right though, it's very stupid and should be mercilessly obliviated from the game.

Nanoframe spam is bad because unlike the vast majority of tactics in Zero-K, it relies 100% on unit stupidity to work (since the physics based part of it where you'd physically block units from advancing with nanoframes was already patched out). The 0 value (okay, technically 7 value or whatever) nanoframes are fundamentally worthless, but units (typically skirmishers) with substantial reload time will shoot at them anyway instead of at the con (usually a commander) making them, allowing it to delay until reinforcements arrive, or outright escape. While use of ignore bad targets unitstate is supposed to prevent units from shooting at nanoframes, ignore bad targets is itself ignored if the unit is on fight move, and as it just so happens the units which nanoframe spam is already the most effective against (skirmishers) are also the ones you'd want on fight move the most (as it ordinarily allows them to take advantage of their superior range). This means that working around a nanoframe spamming com requires giving the units an attack command specifically targeting the commander, which also means that they're more vulnerable to being led into a trap if their controlling player shifts attention somewhere else, compared to if they could be left on fight move.

In principle, any tactic which only ever works because of the stupidity of the units its deployed against has no place in Zero-K.

See I want to say that people should at least watch the replay before suggesting solutions, because it is very easy to make wrong guesses. But Tarkin didn't provide any information so I can't really fault people for not seeing Stuart98's reply.

Perhaps I should just link this: https://store.steampowered.com/news/app/334920/view/693144755752665606

My two principles for nanoframe spam mechanics are:

• They should address actual rather than theoretical issues.
• They shouldn't cause bugs or weird behaviour for "ordinary" play.

Basically, the ideal would be that nobody does nanoframe spam because it doesn't give any benefit, for a bunch of obscure edge case reasons, but that once nobody does it anymore nobody has to think about those reasons.

Anyway, try this: https://github.com/ZeroK-RTS/Zero-K/commit/8d35f54567d2fcbd3cf6830e397b561d8d177c3a

I want to see what kinds of bad edge cases it might cause.

I really hate the idea of frame decay. I am the kind of person that can place a couple of frames for them to be constructed later by caretakers, I think that making the frames neutral for the initial 15 metal can work and I think google already implemented that, mostly. It should be in the test build

What's nanoframe?

https://github.com/ZeroK-RTS/Zero-K/commit/8d35f54567d2fcbd3cf6830e397b561d8d177c3a
^check this Nokonoko

Concerning B2528121 4 on Red Comet Remake 1.7


key moments may be 5:00, 9:45, 10:05.

at 10:05 I find something particulary strange, the ronins are pointing at a nanoframe and not firing and not moving. This is because the nanoframe is doomed to die to a sling shot, and by overkill prevention they are blocking shot but retaining the attack order. The enemy Fahx Machine is retreating. It's a tinny litle micro thing, but something that I would believe is what's making Tarkin scream. Potentially a rocket fired by a ronin would have killed the nanoframe earlier? but the movement pause is super annoying. Generally, I start linemoving my skirms at this point to keep the advance going.

I think nanoframes eating projectiles is a non-issue at this point. When annoys me personally about nanoframe spam is I need to consciously remember what buildings can shoot at me or not, and if I need to avoid the range circle.