Loading Screens Topic

So, since I don't like waiting for answers and doing nothing I decided to download source from GitHub to have a first glance at some of the issues I mentioned in my initial topic. I also decided to organize it into more specialized topics.

This one will be about LOADING SCREENS:

Let's look at what we have first. Majority of the loading screens are basically tutorials and they look decent. There is a question though that I want everyone to answer for themselves (I honestly don't know the answer, can't make up my mind in this matter). The question is:
- Are loading screens a good place for detailed features tutorials? Or should loading screens feature only small "tips" instead?

But let's assume for a moment that loading screens should be tutorials as they are now (which again, I'm fine with since I don't have an opinion on this matter). What should be changed then? Well here it goes:

1) Any non-tutorial loading screen should be removed for the sake of consistency. Those are the little things that make or break the first impression and since game is on Steam the ambition should be for the game to feel as polished as professional-made title. Ugly and childish "jumpjets" loading screen need to go, hand-drawn "unitguidewarrior" and "resign" need to go BUT they could very well be used as background for game menus since they are consistent with main menu background art.

2) Digging into even smaller details: UI elements (unit paths, etc) on tutorial loading screens should only be present if tutorial description justifies it. Otherwise they look bad. This means that:
- Selection circles under 2 bots in "cloaking" loading screen need to be removed (or new screenshot made without those present).
- Healthbars in "markers" loading screen need to be removed (or new screenshot made without those present).
- Shooting range distance circles in "skydust" need to be removed (or new screenshot made without those present).

With those changes it's the least-effort approach to have a consistent and good looking loading screens.

One thing I'd add subjectively (no idea if others like it): I feel like divided into three sections style of loading screen present in "forceforemods" is the one best looking and if new loading screens were to be made to replace all existing ones I feel they should all replicate this style for even better look and even greater consistency. But that is just personal, maybe it's just me liking this style of collage screenshots.

That's why I said I have no personal opinion on whether loading screens should be tutorials or not. If You feel it's a good direction You have my full support. Those loadscreens look decent as I already said. Non tutorial-ones are in minority and look inconsistent. If screenshots are to be loadscreens than ALL screenshots has to be screenshots. If tutorials are to be loading screens than ALL loading screens has to be screenshots.

As for doing those, I already volunteered to do several things and I can't vbelieve You suggest me to that myself too. Is there a single thing that current Zero-K devs are willing to do based on forum responses? Because from several quotes of Yours:

quote: Nobody had enough time and motivation to write a story for the campaign

quote: Improvements to unit icons and other graphics is a matter of a motivated person putting in the work in this particular area.

quote: In any case, this isn't a democracy.

...I start to feel like noone gives a damn. I started writing here because I expected a community driven project with several devoted devs hands-on-deck to push the project forward to perfection until it's Blizzard-quality or better.

When I initially volunteered to do something and instead of "hurray, we have some outdated 2d graphics and someone volunteered to make new, how can we help You make that happen, so nice to have You" I got impression that You guys don't want my contribution at all and just want the discussion to end.

So what's the deal here? Is it a community-driven project or not? Is it alive and kicking or not?

I honestly want to help make some improvements (at least in areas I feel competent in) but:
- I want someone to cooperate with me, either by providing information I need when I need it, providing feedback, etc.
- I don't want meddle with any sort of programming or compilation. I will provide the art, implementing that in the game (after it's approved of course) has to be someone else's job.

So please tell me:
- Do You want my help or not?
- Are You willing to cooperate with me in making 2d graphics better (in ways I described above: providing information and sources, providing feedback to mockup designs I will post on forums and test versions of my art, implementing my art at the end)?

AS FOR THIS TOPIC which is LOADING SCREENS:
- I'm not currently planning to do loading screens myself. Maybe someday maybe not.
- I provided feedback and logical arguments, based on industry standards, potential marketing impact on the game and my own impressions and experience. Consistency, attention to details, good taste!

I am willing to refresh the topic of loading screens and do the corrections if we agree upon what is to be corrected and how. I'll probably also create few missing ones that I planned to do.

What if loading screens were unlocked at player levels and the jumping one would be the last to unlock? That would solve the problem of wrong first impression.

quote: ...I start to feel like noone gives a damn. I started writing here because I expected a community driven project with several devoted devs hands-on-deck to push the project forward to perfection until it's Blizzard-quality or better. When I initially volunteered to do something and instead of "hurray, we have some outdated 2d graphics and someone volunteered to make new, how can we help You make that happen, so nice to have You" I got impression that You guys don't want my contribution at all and just want the discussion to end. So what's the deal here? Is it a community-driven project or not? Is it alive and kicking or not? I honestly want to help make some improvements (at least in areas I feel competent in) but: - I want someone to cooperate with me, either by providing information I need when I need it, providing feedback, etc. - I don't want meddle with any sort of programming or compilation. I will provide the art, implementing that in the game (after it's approved of course) has to be someone else's job.

These are also my problems with community and contributions to zero-k. It can be hurtful and demotivating (actually I still feel disgruntled, hurt and demotivated by my history of trying to get any response for change/discussion). However I think this can be partly explained by the time investment.

When someone new comes around and says hey this this and that needs correcting - we hooray at feedback and start discussion. When that someone also states that he can improve himself X and Y, we also hooray, but usually with high odds it's only hot air balloon that deflates fast and motivation for change drops fast as well. That's the reason why many ignore/don't invest themselves until they see any first signs of results of said motivation to do any change.

The picture changes a bit when someone more invested (with at least 100 hours of play time or 6 months of on/off playing the game) suggests the same - there is clear evidence that backs the person's investment and love for the project (time spent with the game) so it's safer to treat it seriously.

Another aspect of not a loud "hooray" response is that we don't have any evidence that what you provide is improvement over the existing ones - often people either fail to deliver or it's the matter of taste. As GoogleFrog said, you are targetting low hanging fruits that are pretty easy to improve upon so you don't have to worry about that. I hope you can see why the responses are overall not so enthusiastic and reserved.

By the way the "hooray part" was the amount of upvotes that you got. Average good posts gets less than 5 - so 10 and more is very hooray by the looks of it.

Answering your questions

* It is a community-driven project with dictature of the Core Devs that have limited time to discuss/read/code and have to confirm all changes and suggestions.
* It's alive, but I wouldn't call it "kicking" all the time - it has more intensive and more relaxed development times.
* I can/want to cooperate with you.
* Art is often easy to link and replace. Regarding icons - just take the already generated ones as source and put them on some grid and provide your replacements with side by side comparison.

Zenfur, is there any chance I could ask You for several screenshots? I need to test some idea I just got regarding loading screens - it might be epic.

What I need exactly let's say 6 screenshots from the game itself (no menu) with:
- All ultra settings,
- No UI elements whatsoever, no selections, no range rings no nothing,
- Need to be as pretty as possible.

I don't know all the maps and units well enough to pick the best looking ones. Thanks in advance.

Anything that have a WOW factor really - nice looking terrain, many units/buildings. If You guys like the design than we will talk about specific screenshots :)

As someone whos not into the discussion:

"And You are faces of Zero-K and Zero-K Community, which means You have to act nice, motivating, optimistic and sparkling even if You happen to be so dead inside that top-notch necromancy wouldn't help You."

Sounds a bit like blackmailing.


"That's PR basics for You :-)"

exept this is a non-profit-project.


i really like your passion for the game. but be told that in my eyes, this is an undead-game. it strictly refuses to die
for over 6 years now, simply because we have a super-dedicated playerbase that doesn´t really care for the things people expect from official releases.
I stress again that this is not an attack on your person in any way. i just want to make clear what zero-k is in MY opinion.

Also, if you want to keep the DoF effect many of the loading screen shots have without doing it in GIMP, the DoF widget settings let you set the focus manually. I would recommend turning "Apply DoF" OFF unless you are planning to use manual focus to get a specific shot with a specific depth of field, since these are supposed to be super nice screenshots and you'll want max control of focus.

Another thing to avoid in screenshots is the sky and any map edges.

My intention isn't to replace them but to expand on them/tweak. Right now it isn't even that - it's getting some new decent looking screenshots.

Also GoogleFrog in general I agree, however some maps have so beautiful sky it's a sin not to include it. Many map edges can be obfuscated so you don't realise that's what it is.

If we were to change it to small tips the loading code would have to be replaced so that background can change independently from the very short tips to iterate over the loadtime. Background could be either good looking screenshots or say rotating 3d models of units with some basic info (most of them look good).

@edit:

quote: Digging into even smaller details: UI elements (unit paths, etc) on tutorial loading screens should only be present if tutorial description justifies it. Otherwise they look bad. This means that: - Selection circles under 2 bots in "cloaking" loading screen need to be removed (or new screenshot made without those present). - Healthbars in "markers" loading screen need to be removed (or new screenshot made without those present). - Shooting range distance circles in "skydust" need to be removed (or new screenshot made without those present).

"unitguidewarrior" - I don't think I touched that one
- selection circles on cloaking loading screen are very intentional and were added after making the screenshot - they demonstrate how decloak UI circles look and that they are visible only when units are selected. I've drawn them manually and can be easily removed.
- I agree that marker screen could be replaced - it brilliantly shows however how messy team games are and communication within them. It'll be easy to picture some clusterpot
- by "skydust" you mean sky Warlord and sky Annihilator? There are no shooting range circles - just builder circles and I agree I forgot to deselect. It's very minor and they are subtle. I can't easily remove them I'd have to redo the screen

Have a look at this old thread.


Feel free to add some outer glow if you want it to look like the site logo.