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Impaler rebalance ideas...

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1. Give Impaler a stockpile, halve missile damage and make missiles cost 10-15 metal per shot reloaded over 10 seconds. User can fire the Impaler in bursts, firing 1-2 missiles per second until the stockpile depletes. Must stop to fire.

2. Give us an interceptor static unit that acts like a razor but against missiles. The interceptor damage decreases with distance. 1 interceptor can stop 1 Impaler missile every 5 seconds, 3 can stop Napalm, 4 can stop an Eos missile, 5 can stop a Shockley, 9 can stop a Quake (making it a good decoy). This is assuming the missiles are targeting dead centre on the interceptor. Shockley and Napalm depletes its payload on the ground if it explodes mid-air, giving a larger stun/burn radius but only like ~5s stun/burn duration. Make interceptors expensive like ~500 metal each.

Interceptor will require some UI changes to make it intuitive to place. Also eventually Napalm and Shockley should be able to detonate mid-air as a unit behaviour.

your thoughts?
+3 / -0
6 months ago
cluster missile when?
+1 / -0
6 months ago
Impaler is one of those things you can't balance easy because they have a lot of unique utility in teams but are lack-luster in duels and 2v2s
+2 / -0

6 months ago
If Impaler had less HP and had to stop to fire it would already be a major help.
+2 / -0

6 months ago
The problem with impaler nerf is without impaler it becomes a lot harder to deal with porc in team games; I think impaler is a bit of a necessary evil. Figuring out how to nerf porc in lobster pots without compromising its effectiveness in smaller games seems like it should be the higher priority.
+2 / -0


6 months ago
Why do people dislike Impaler?

It's the good porc killer, forcing mobile units.
+7 / -0
6 months ago
It also means that forgetting to move your units leads to them getting ultra killed.
+1 / -0
6 months ago
NO! LEAVE THE POOR IMPALERS ALONE! THEY DIDN"T HURT ANYBODY :(
+2 / -0
quote:
It also means that forgetting to move your units leads to them getting ultra killed.


That is the point of artillery. Punishing mistakes is the only way Impaler can kill anything which can move 1 elmo/second.

quote:
NO! LEAVE THE POOR IMPALERS ALONE! THEY DIDN"T HURT ANYBODY :(


A lot of players spam defense in lobpots, so impaler hurts them a lot more than someone with units.
I would argue that this is the point, so people spamming defense at the cost of an army is punished for it.

quote:
Impaler is one of those things you can't balance easy because they have a lot of unique utility in teams but are lack-luster in duels and 2v2s


Only because 1-3v1-3 does not have the absurd amount of defense noobs build in every team game. If people stopped making 3K in aspis-stinger-caretaker-lotus fortresses then impaler's usecase also decreases.

quote:
Why do people dislike Impaler?

It's the good porc killer, forcing mobile units.


A lot of people want to make large fortresses where they can feel safe. Impaler shatters this delusion. Sadly, the biggest perpetrators of defense spam are the most resistant to learning to use mobile units....


TLDR: Impaler is a well-designed unit with a clear target and clear downsides. It does not need significant changes. Stop to fire and stockpiling are interesting concepts. Modern artillery is capable of burst fire before moving on. Should Impaler follow these current trends?
Nerfing Impaler's porc-busting by making each shot cost metal is a terrible idea however.

quote:

2. Give us an interceptor static unit that acts like a razor but against missiles.


Adding more defense in lobpots saturated with defense will do the opposite of ' encourage people to play Zero-K'
+3 / -0
Ironically, the largest range entities are structures. Trinity has infinite. Super weapons have VERY long range. Bertha has long range. Silo has long range. Cerberus has long range, and then the units start kicking in.

Bertha, silo and cerberus reasonably "counter" impaler. The one thing impaler has for it is that it can be invisible/jammed and somebody hiding behind towers, even if outranging impaler, may not be able to see it.

I'm not counting shields in this becasue they protect structures the same way they protect units, so that seems moot. Structures can be radar jammed, but they cannot be invisible. Not legitimately anyway.
+1 / -0

6 months ago
quote:
Trinity has infinite.


are you sure?




you have never played longcat.
+1 / -0
There is a PR that makes mobile units able to predict where a visible projectile will land, and move out of there if possible. If you are seriously shopping for a solution to "impaler kills idle mobile units", there exists a technology to do that, precisely that, and nothing else.

(Do note that the PR needs a clean-up after a year of bitrot and configuring the evasion to apply to selectively only Impaler would be a thing to contribute)

As for protecting statics, well. I'm not sure Impaler can even defeat its cost-equivalent in Aspis shield regen.
+2 / -0
quote:
I'm not sure Impaler can even defeat its cost-equivalent in Aspis shield regen.

Yeah, I'm under the impression that shields are the best way to invalidate impalers, more than impalers are the best way to destroy shields. (Although obviously shields that become weak will be picked off.)

Best way other than killing the impalers anyway.
+0 / -0

6 months ago
I sense a distinct lack of skill here. If you want your units to constantly move about, there is a PATROL ORDER. This prevents them from getting impaled quite reliably, unless they are stunned/blackholed or otherwise immobile. If you do not want your units to move out of the line when aggro'd by enemy stuff, you can put them on repeat move-command, which makes them move around without stopping for any reason. This keeps things like badgers, impalers and lances 100% immune to impalers.

There are a few units that have to stop in order to fire though, most notably emissary. Emissary dies HARD to impalers, as it can not realistically stop, fire, move away without intense micro. Also impaler outranges it pretty hard, making direct counter-battery work infeasible. Another easy target for impalers that could move away but does not are builders. Most builders can move and build, but will stop when close enough to their target. This makes them easy prey for impalers (assuming you have a spotter for vision). How big of a problem this is is a good question - most builders are quite poor targets for impalers in cost/hp sort of sense.

I see many ways to improve the survivability of conventional units vs impalers:
- get good at the game (see above point about patrol order)
- get cloak (deny targeting) - iris is way cheaper than impaler, and one iris covers a whole bunch of area.
- get owl (deny targeting) - also cheaper, but you may need 3-4 of them to get reliable jamming
- improve unit AI to allow units to automatically shift position every 3-4 seconds when otherwise idle. This would be super nice for things like envoys and sirens too, as keeping them on repeat has some negative side-effects.

Of these 4 ways, first 3 require no change to the game...
+2 / -0