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Improve hermit

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As discussed here - http://zero-k.info/Battles/Detail/206230

the marginal purpose of the foreverUP hermit is now even further marginalized by the new, more awesome venom.

The spider fac is improved but I think we can all agree far from 1v1 competetive on almost every map (unless you are godde) due to missing unit roles. possible compositions are even further limited by the presence of an underpowered assault choice.

Can we finally soup the hermit up a bit? Go to mod stats, and look how many players in the top 20 produced hermits in the last 6 months - its useless.

how about speeding it up so it can keep up with the rest of the spiderball?
+4 / -0
To reiterate my previous neonstorms on the subject of buffing the hermit beyond simply ++stat:

1) Strongly increase its DPS but slow its projectile to make it more effective against immobile targets (but weak vs mobiles). One of Godde's spider-strats is to use flea->glaive->warrior morph to execute stunned targets. A high-dps executioner would help.

2) Give it the old dirtbag's deathmound (but a spider-only spike) and replace its weapon with a powerful, accurate, high-trajectory cannon so you can pile them up higher and higher and fire from behind the new cover and exploit heightboost. This would also make it a useful support-unit for the Crabe that is fantastic at exploiting heightboost, and providing cover for recluse. Spotting would be an issue though.

3) Give it capture. Synergy with Venom. The problem is the Dom-capture-beam is super-accurate and that would break the Hermit, so you'd need to devise a new capture weapon that can't hit raiders.

4) Let it jump. Crazy, but if you think about it this would fix a lot of its problems.
+1 / -2

11 years ago
I don't really care for the other options, but #3 is a big no no
+0 / -0
All-terrain spammable assault dominatrix! Yeah!
+1 / -0


11 years ago
no neonstorms of any kind ever please
+0 / -1
11 years ago
Personally, I think we should give it disruptor beams. Also, the venom needs its damage removed and stun time lessened. With infinite stun it is impossible for stunned units to fire back at all, and then the units you send to fight the venoms just get stunned too. Slow firing disruptor hermit with nerfed venom would make good synergy in the factory.
+1 / -3
!!Derail Warning!!

A "spiderlight" unit has been created in past months for testing some of the pathways to improving the spider factory:

quote:
The 'spideranarchid' has come! A miniature Starlight twisted into the form of a spider. It has eight spiderly legs. I has a range hax satellite. Beware its low dps! Now you know why you fear the night.


You can actually toy with this unit in current stable, by using cheats.

The idea was scrapped, because having an accurate mobile LLT with low dps was either UP or OP based on how much damage it did, since it would either be an extremely narrow-niche thing that you can only use for giving venoms damage support - or it would completely outlass the venom (and few others, too).

So in the end, the Venom got its damage boost.

However:
quote:
Strongly increase its DPS but slow its projectile to make it more effective against immobile targets


This got me thinking. The Starlight is perfectly accurate, but not that quick to aim. It can't really hit planes even with its perfect accuracy - because it aims slow.

What if "spiderlight" also had this quality of slow aim? Would that just be a recluse mk2, or would that make it a lower-range supporty slicer-dicer for killing things that can't run? A crawling voidray of sorts?
+2 / -0

11 years ago
Like a miniature Spidermonkey?
+0 / -0
What is a spidermonkey? Do you mean the slowing chicken? Or the cybran monkeylord? Or the terran primate species?

(no, not like any of those)
+0 / -0

11 years ago
ah yes, i mean monkey lord.

Why did i call it spider monkey?
+0 / -0
EErankAdminAnarchid

So a spider-penetrator? I'm not sure what problem this is supposed to solve, other than "OMG mobile satellite beamgun is awesome!"
+0 / -0
You should really toy with what that experimental thing using /give spideranarchid. It's incomparable to a penetrator.

Pene is: high-alpha, quick-aim, high-range, low overall dps.
Proposed spiderlight: low-alpha, slow-aim, low-medium range, moderate-high dps.
Current spiderlight: low-alpha, fast-aim, low-medium range, low dps.

Neither are like penetrator (or monkeylord).

What it could do: kill of stunned/paralyzed units, kill structures, hide from enemy fire behind solars/terrain, hit slow units, be borderline effective on its own, cause ton of collateral damage to allies (like starlight does).

What it wouldn't: fight raiders alone, skirmish at long range, raid, dodge shots, snipe things alone.

A lot of those seems to correlate to the assaulty role. Hence thought of this, as Hermit is assault.

+0 / -0
EErankAdminAnarchid
U want it to shot like pene (focused straight beam) or more like starlight (hilarous anthena flying over ur unit, giving enemy great inteligence, were ur units are) ?
+0 / -0


11 years ago
quote:
more like starlight (hilarous anthena flying over ur unit, giving enemy great inteligence, were ur units are) ?

Except not that high. Please try the current implementation.
+0 / -0


11 years ago
My suggestion at the time was to think about an accurate Hermit (red Scorpion beams?) instead of adding damage to Venom. This would move Hermit towards accurate and beefy riot with no other redeeming features which is a role I think the Spider Factory could use.

Recluse kills LLT so Hermit does not need to be that kind of assault. Almost anything with health will be decent against MTs and HLT (if the HLT is by itself, which is never).

Hermit with an arcing gun is a slower Ravager with less weight. I don't think that an accurate weapon would make it a lighter Zeus because stun is also a large part of the Zeus.

I would like to see Hermits and Venom working together. With Venom damage and Hermit inaccuracy I don't see it happening. With this idea Hermit should be best at picking off the few units that a Venom does not hit.
+1 / -0


11 years ago
Particle beam hermit sounds murderous, but is also something much quicker to try and less finnicky than slow-aim lazor.
+0 / -0

GBrankSab
11 years ago
Just increase its damage and all problems solved... (maybe speed too, but then again it can climb hills which is an advanatage so maybe speed should be kept the same...)
+0 / -0


11 years ago
I'm not doing a slow aim laser because messing with aiming on mobiles is painful. Units which have turnrate much higher than their gun turnrate are just a pain to use because the slow aiming can be worked around with move orders.

So I don't know what you would suggest. Make the Hermit deploy to attack which fixes it in position so the slow aiming is relevant? Sounds bad.
+0 / -0
quote:
Units which have turnrate much higher than their gun turnrate are just a pain to use because the slow aiming can be worked around with move orders.

Tech-wise, the aiming could be completely detached from movement. Satellite could be a non-interactive non-turning unit, for example.

(or it could be like an actual drone, killable and replenished for free)

Perhaps i'll shut up about this satellite thing until there's something to toy with.
+1 / -0


11 years ago
If you can figure out how to implement a direction independent satellite then we would at least have a usable unit. Your solution must be script based, no fake units are to be used because linear increase in unit count is likely to hit the unit limit.
+0 / -0
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