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Annoying Felons

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ive noticed something quite annoying with felons and the shield mechanics


a lot of players dont seem to understand how the felons work, they build them without any thugs or other shield units


this leads to 2 annoying situations:

1. felons often just die at the frontline because of no ammo


2. the felons drain the shields of other players armies, essentially griefing them and making them vulnerable (thats pretty dangerous when fighting high HP units like hermits or halberds)


cant do much about the first, but it would be nice to have an option to disable or enable sharing shields with other players, its kinda dumb having to retreat because someone walks into your army with 5 felons and nothing else

would be useful in some other situations where people use aspis or aegis in an unfortunate way too (like pulling AA fire into their shields)
+0 / -0
7 days ago
Having the option to disable shield sharing would indirectly buff Porc a lot, especially against Eos barrages. You could have two different players shielding a Cerberus for example, and 1 Eos would hit the first players shield, draining it, and then the second would impact on the second players shield, leaving only the last Eos to actually hit the Cerberus. And that's only considering 2 players building shields. Imagine a whole team building shields around a superweapon, or something important like a singu or an anti. It would essentially invalidate Eos as a unit.
+1 / -0
7 days ago
yeah i thought of it more as a global setting, but having this individually per unit would open up a lot of new options

i would be happy with both variants though
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what about shield share remains unchanged but fellons only draw from allied shields? or shields that toggle 'allied fellon share'? .. nevermind that wont work because you could then just make a thug or whatever and draw shield into them that way.

i suppose its just as bad as a teamate making a big ball of imps to reinforce your frontlines

game has allot of noobtrap units that are very good units but hard to use
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Aegis, with or without shield sharing, pretty much invalidates eos as is unless what it's trying to protect is close to the edge of the shield. In that case AOE kills the cerb anwyay.

If EOS are shot slowly enough for shield sharing to matter and pull aegis value below 3.5k, odds are that the cerb player can just repair the cerb between eos shots anyway. As soon as a cerb has 4+ aegis protecting it and they're not all clumped a single silo is no longer able to break through unless something else weakens the shields first, at least in average TAW levels of income. And even if you could break through, at that point it's costing you more in missiles than rebuilding a new cerb.

If felons are hanging out near your stuff and draining your shields, that means they lived and damaged (most likely killed) stuff so they're making cost or at least fighting. "NOT MAH SHELDS" is a weird complaint about a player that is actually doing stuff damaging the enemy and not losing their stuff in the process. Seems like a good problem to have. Better yet, if they're depleting their shields while hanging near yours, they're contributing to the battle and they're not draining shields anywhere near as fast as unchecked enemy fire.

I agree that felon spam is not a good strategy, but quite frankly NanoPirate, nothing you do is particularly good either so there's that. Anyone can hop in taw, build 5-6 racketeers and shut down your weird porc pretty easily. In 6 years, you haven't done much to improve. Last few games I spectated, you still don't even plop.

I also don't see how not sharing shields with team solves the issue of landing a flying unit within enemy aa range. The enemy is still going to be shooting at your shields. The issue is the air unit/drone, not shield sharing.

None of these complaints make any sense.
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"None of these complaints make any sense" i will try to understand him for you.. ill do my best..

op made mention of some units that tank damage quite well.. perhaps he was suggesting that a cyclopse or something is trading hp to drain the shields.. your correct so far that this is 'doing damage'.. but perhaps op had plans to use his shields in defence.. perhaps its possible that its exactly this situation in wich a player may be attempting to prevent a com snipe that maybe op could have there shields drained and loose there com.

i know this sounds more like fellon being countered by high hp units to drain shields and snipe fellons/coms.. because thats what it is..
but thats also the point.. op wanted to make shields for defencive reasons.. and the fellon is forceully converting defence into attack.. wich is good because damage is good.. but this exposure at the wrong time can get op killed... and op may have directly made the shields in an attempt to stay alive tied to a key location in the presence of long range bombardments

i feel like the correct solution to this is to just ask the fellon player to move away from the location if your in desperate need to prioratize defence.. assuming you have enough pressence at the location to regard it as your own base

but if the location is a choke point and the fellon spammer is forced to fight at that location then they may feel as though being forced to not use fellons is just as 'annoying'

im guessing this is an issue since fellon now trades much worse dps vs shield drain after the nerf.. and the choice between defending and attacking has actual conciquences vs heavy targets

i did a bunch of maths and 1 cyclopse drans 3 lance shots worth of shields to kill it. i accounted for fellon regen. so the shield drain is indeed significant.
+0 / -0


7 days ago
quote:
If EOS are shot slowly enough for shield sharing to matter and pull aegis value below 3.5k, odds are that the cerb player can just repair the cerb between eos shots anyway. As soon as a cerb has 4+ aegis protecting it and they're not all clumped a single silo is no longer able to break through unless something else weakens the shields first, at least in average TAW levels of income. And even if you could break through, at that point it's costing you more in missiles than rebuilding a new cerb.

I don't follow, doesn't three Eos kill a shielded Cerb? Fire one to weaken the shields, then fire two simultaneously. No time for repair.
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Simultaneously, yes.

But we're talking about shield sharing. I took the above post to mean that if you shoot one eos, wait, shoot an eos, wait, shoot an eos... then shield sharing would have one aegis fill the other and take itself down below 3.5k.

I don't think I've ever seen that happen. If there are two aegis near a cerb, they usually block 2 eos and then even if the third one makes it through, it doesn't kill the cerb. That is of course if the shields reach far enough to mitigate the AOE.

EDIT:
And that's a steel man of this post:

quote:
You could have two different players shielding a Cerberus for example, and 1 Eos would hit the first players shield, draining it, and then the second would impact on the second players shield, leaving only the last Eos to actually hit the Cerberus.


Because if the attacker just shot 3 eos simultaneously at 2 aegis, I don't see how shield sharing even comes into play at all.
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I am aware that probably everybody in this conversation understands the following, but there still seems to be some confusion, so...

Imagine a Cerberus protected by two Aegises.

--

If the Aegises did not share shield charge (which can be achieved in current ZK by having the first shield on a spike way out in front of the Cerberus) then four tacnukes would be required to kill the Cerberus. As long as one does not give the shields time to recharge or the Cerberus time to repair, it does not matter when you fire them.

--

If (as normal in current Zero-K) the Aegises do share shield charge, three tacnukes will do the job; fire one to lower one shield, wait a few seconds for shield share to happen and bring both shields below the threshold, then fire two tacnukes at once to kill the Cerberus.

I think that being able to execute that correctly is essentially mandatory to be considered as a competent tacsilo wielder in current ZK.
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6 days ago
i hope your saying 4 tacs needed for 2 shields not share vs 3 tacs needed for two shields share?

otherwise im now really confused
+0 / -0

6 days ago
I think that is what I said, yes.
+1 / -0